Sophia Holden and Alfred Holden

[mgc]

I have a December 1838 marriage certificate, Sheffield, Cathedral St. Peter, whereon the Witnesses are given as: Sophia Holden and Alfred Holden.

Evidently, these two persons (Sophia Holden and Alfred Holden) do not show-up in Sheffield in the 1841 census, and I'm hoping that somebody will be kind enough to lookup where they are in 1841.  They may or may not appear together, and not necessarily in south Yorkshire, but wherever they are my guess is that they would most likely be within some reasonable radius of Sheffield, i.e., north DBY etc.

Also, they may appear with the the surname "Houlden" as opposed to "Holden."

Thanks in advance for any help with this... and as they most often are - my fingers are crossed.

Mike

[mgc]

If anybody has taken a look at this Holden problem and is stymied, welcome to the club.

Anyway, this is what I just found out:
It appears Alfred Holden married Sophia Oates in Rotherham some time in the 4th qtr of 1838; just prior to their appearance as witnesses at the marriage I mentioned earlier which also occurred in that same qtr ... 25 Dec 1838 to be exact.

If Alfred and Sophia don't appear anywhere in Britain in 1841, then I wouldn't be surpised if, as a newly married couple, they emigrated.  If they emigrated to the US I would be even less surprised.

Mike

[wozzle]

there is a 48 year old alfred holden in sheffield in 1861 he is widowed his occ is slater
there is a death in 1860 in sheffield of a sophia holden
having said that i cannot find them in 1841 or 1851

[keyboard86]

Hi Wozzle, that is interesting re the Alfred Holden occ Slater, as their is this 1841:-
And they are with Harriett Oates aged 15 and Joseph Oates aged 7?


Alfred Holden 25 occ Slater Not born in County
Sophia Holden 35 Not born in County
Residing at Grays Inn Lane, Holborn, London, Middx.
Census Ref HO107/670/ 6/35/ 5

Keyboard86

[wozzle]

Hi Wozzle, that is interesting re the Alfred Holden occ Slater, as their is this 1841:-
And they are with Harriett Oates aged 15 and Joseph Oates aged 7?


Alfred Holden 25 occ Slater Not born in County
Sophia Holden 35 Not born in County
Residing at Grays Inn Lane, Holborn, London, Middx.
Census Ref HO107/670/ 6/35/ 5

Keyboard86

that must be them especially with the name oates cropping up
well done keyboard86

[keyboard86]

Hi again, only a possible, but I wonder who this lot are in 1851?

Thomas Smith 40 occ Slater b Sheffield
Sophia 40 b Mortlake, Surrey
Joseph Oates Son 16 b Sheffield
Residing at 7, Brad Street, Lambeth, Surrey.
Census Ref HO107/1569/286/12
Keyboard86

[wozzle]

or this
joseph oates son of george oates and sophia oates born may 1834 baptised on the 16th feb 1881 at st philips church sheffield
ext.rec.I.G.I.

could sophia have married george oates they then have a child joseph oates
george oates dies before 1838
sophia oates then marries alfred holden

[dobfarm]

There is a George Oates who died 1837 Sheffield age 47 in the NB's

[mgc]

Thanks Dob, Woz, KeyBd ... It appears they did stay in England after all, and that is at least that part of the puzzle sorted, and for that I am grateful -- Thanks much!

What started this problem was determining if there was a familial relationship between Alfred Holden and one or the other of the wedded pair that he and wife Sophia were witnessing for in Sheffield, Dec of 1838.

Intuitively I suspected that it may be Alfred Holden who was familialy related to the witnessed-for groom in Dec 1838 - the groom being a certain John Glossop, b. 1816, Sheffield, and per the John Glossop marriage cert., was the son of a certain George Glossop.  Per the IGI the only George Glossop I found who had a son John born in 1816 in Sheffield, was the George Glossop who married a certain Elizabeth Sarah Houlden in Sheffield in 1809.

With that, I tentatively assumed a familial surname correlation between Alfred Holden and Elizabeth Sarah (Houlden) Glossop.... as in: maybe Alfred Holden was a nephew of Elizabeth, and hence may have been John Glossop's cousin on his maternal side.

It gets better (or worse) .... All of this to prove or disprove a stipulation that apppears in a 1934 souvenir publication in Sullivan County, Pennsylvania, USA (of flipping all places) which states: "John (aka Jack) Glossop was the son of Mary Glossop..." -- a claim which I am now more or less disputing, as I am suspecting that Mary Glossop was more likely a marital in-law of the above George Glossop, i.e, George Glossop's sister-in-law, and hence an aunt of George's son John Glossop - he being the guy married in in Sheffield in Dec. of 1838, and for whom Alfred Holden was a witness.     Mind-bending to say the least!

Mike