davies family

[bluemoon al]

  i have found my gt grandfathers brother thomas davis/davies lodging at 105 station rd,featherstone--ref rg12/3758 on the 1891 census, hi is single born 1869 in pendlebury lancs. i cannot find him on the 1901 census, but i have found him again on the 1911 census lodging at 233 near building grimethorpe barnsley,-ref rg14 pn27530, he is now married to a hannah nee gething- i cannot find their marraige,
they have 2 children sarah ellen aged 6--cannot find birth record, and emmanuel aged 1-i have found his record. it states thomas had been married 22 yrs.
   can anyone help me to find thomas;s marriage, and sarah ellens birth, why was hannah not there on the census and what chance is there of finding them again after the 1911 census, will i have to wait untill the next census-----many thanks

[Glen Field]

I think that this could be the (rather complicated) situation, in outline ....

Ann Gething married William Henry Hand on 22nd March 1889 at St Peter, Swinton. He was a widower, aged 28. She was a spinster aged 21. Their respective fathers were James Hand (Shoemaker) and James Gething (Collier).

Ann was born c1868, at Heath Town, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire and she can be readily seen on the 1881 census with her family. William Henry Hand was born c1859 at Ladymoor, Ettingshall, Staffordshire. His mother was called Hannah. Ann’s mother was called Ellen.

William Henry and Ann Hand can be seen on the 1891 census at reference RG12/3209/36/19 with their first two children William James and Samson (who has been listed as Simeon - he died soon after the census was taken). Also living with them, at 14 Spencer St, Pendlebury, is William’s brother, Philistine Hand (also from Ladymoor, Ettingshall).

On the 1901 census they appear at RG13/3720/172/35 with other children called Thomas, Annie, Edward and Ellen Hand.

At some point between 1901 and 1911, William and Ann parted company. In that period she had more children, Florence Hand, Samuel Hand, Sarah Ellen Hand and Emmanuel Davies. That is how their births are registered. The father of Emmanuel was Thomas Davies (who she did not marry). The father of Florence was probably William but it is uncertain who fathered Samuel and Sarah Ellen without seeing the birth records.

The most likely birth registrations seem to be 1904 (Q1) Barnsley 9c 199 - Samuel Hand and 1905 (Q2) Doncaster 9c 870 - Sarah Ellen Hand.

On the 1911 census, Thomas Davies (as you already know) is with Sarah Ellen and Emmanuel. It is not permitted to provide the 1911 census details here, you will need to find them yourself but by way of guidance, William is living with his widowed mother, Hannah plus Ellen and Florence in Pendlebury. I think Ann is with her son, Sam, in Pontefract. In each case, their details are not strictly in accordance with previous facts. Some of William and Ann’s other children can also be found in 1911 - not living with either parent.

Have a look and see what you think.

GF

[bluemoon al]

hi glen,
           many thanks for your reply, i would never have found the info you have given me regarding thomas-who incidently is my gt granfathers son not brother. i never gave it a thought ann gething had been married before yet alone living in pendlebury where thomas use to live.
  i do have emmanuels birth certificate which stated his mother was ann davis--- so she must have been telling porkies.  also on the 1911 census it stated thomas had been married 22 yrs--again lies.
  our ancestors-or more signifantly mine are making it very difficult to find them--is this the norm?
   once again glen many thanks for your help-- if you would like to pass onto me any tips how you found ann gethin from what little info i put into the e-mail would helpme greatly
regards
alan

[Glen Field]

Hi Alan

The birthplace of Sarah Ellen is listed as Denaby, which is in the Doncaster Registration District. There was only one Sarah Ellen birth registered there in 1905/6 and that was Sarah Ellen Hand. Since a Sarah Ellen Hand from Yorkshire did not appear (as such) in 1911 it seemed quite likely that this could be the child with Thomas Davies on the census sheet.

I, therefore, looked for a Hand + Gething marriage and eventually found the one in the Pendlebury area, which seemed to be a possibility. I then went about finding that couple and their offspring on the subsequent censuses to see where it lead.

It all seemed to fit from the information that you provided about Thomas and Emmanuel and Sarah Ellen. Before you accept it as correct, however, you should try to carry out some more checks or get someone else to have a look at it for you.

Incidentally, I think that Thomas Davies can be seen at reference RG13/3655/28/48 in 1901. He is living with a family called Barlow at 11 Bridge St, Swinton, Lancashire. He is listed as being an uncle but I cannot readily see any relationship to the Barlow family (or the Gallagher family from which Mrs Barlow came) so I think that he might just be a lodger.

GF

[bluemoon al]

  glen,
             thanks once again for your e-mail- regarding thomas davies i certainly think it is him on the 1901
census---although it states his name is thomas doores--no wonder i could never find him. my wife has
come across the name barlow before, she thinks annie barlow was a gallagher-- but could have been a
davies or married a davies.-- so thomas looks like he could be their uncle.
we hope to get into manchester tomorrow to see what we can come up with.
 kind regards
alan

[Mills Lane]

Thomas Davies was my Gran mothers farther
 his name is the one on her marriage certificate  William Henry Hand is her correct farther his name is the one on her birth certificate which i have a copy also i have a copy of her elder brother Samuels birth certificate William Henry Hand is Named as the farther on his birth certificate too.
My grand farther worked with Thomas Davies at Silverwood pit he lodged with him when he came down from Whitehaven with his brother and farther.
Sarah Ellen was married in 1924 at Thrybergh parish church
Hannah Gething did get married again in 1929 .
if you would like any other details let me know,
i am really interested in the fact that you have his birth certificate
 Davies did have a further 2 children to an other partner they were born in 1922 & 1925

[bluemoon al]

hi mills lane,
                 thanks for your message, if you could  please e-mail me on * i would be obliged.
           regards
alan
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