Tritonville Rd; Change in house # in the 1940's

[sandlotball]

Looking for an explanation as to why a house number would have changed, apparently sometime in the 1940's.

My grandparents moved into their home on Tritonville Rd in approxomitly 1905. She remained in the same home until her passing in 1980.
In the 1911 Census the house # is listed as 8. In addition, she & two of the adult children appear on the 1939-40 Electoral Rolls as residing at # 8.

The family always called the home "#12" & in every photo I have (the earliest from the late 1940's), it's clearly marked #12. It's the same home for the entire 75 years, that's not in question.

So, simple question; What caused the change ?

[shanew147]

I'll check the later listings, but the most common reasons for renumbering were either to allow for new houses, or to fit with revised numbering systems.

e.g. Some city and suburb streets had intermingled numbers - the main sequence, along with separate numbers for terraces. These were sometimes rationalized in a single sequence, although people sometimes used the old Terrace name as part of the address along with he street name. I know of instance in South Dublin were both the old terrace number and 'new' street number are both still used at the same time - some of the houses have both, one on each gate pillar.



Shane

[sandlotball]

Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "terrace" ?

[shanew147]

a row of similar houses joined together

sometimes cottages, sometimes large houses


Shane

[shanew147]

to start off.... some details from Thom's 1914

Tritonville Rd is described as running from Londonbridge road to Serpentine avenue, with number 1 at the Londonbridge road junction - i.e. northern end. Odd numbers are used for western side and even numbers on the eastern.

Number 8 is close to the Claremont Rd / Serpertine Avenue junction, i.e. the southern end, and the householder listed is a Jno. Joseph Mansfield.

The numbering system looks to be the same in 1927. I'll check further this evening...



Shane

[sandlotball]

Shane -

Thank you for the help you're providing. John Joseph is my grandfather. Can the Thom's directory be accessed online ?

I'm curious about the term "householder". I'm assuming it does not imply ownership. There's a further issue with the home that I don't know how to investigate. I believe it may have been actually owned by English people. Some sort of issue arose after my grandmother's death & my un-married aunt & uncle who lived their lives there had to either purchase it or move. I'm not really sure about the details.
A second question, or set of questions, is; was some form of 'life-time' leases common ? I've looked for information on such an arrangement but come up empty. How can I find who actually owned the home all those years if, in fact, it was some sort of pre-Independence 'English owner / Irish tenant' arrangement ?

All I can recall from the time, as I was very young, was my father seeming a little surprised & making some statements about how English landholdings should have been terminated after the truce.

[shanew147]

These Thom's are not online, although extracts of some 19th Century ones are. I have hard copies of a selection of them.

I used the term householder deliberately - as neither directory entries or voters lists imply anything about who actual owned the house or land. Many people leased/rented and even those that owned their house, either through a mortgage or outright, may have paid ground rent to the owner of the land.

The building returns on the census forms have a column for the land owner that might be worth checking, but it's not always filled out. As far as I know property ownership (with the exception of barracks and government buildings etc) in the new Free State was maintained after Independence.


Shane

[sandlotball]

Gee, you've jogged my memory with that reply. I do recall now, hazily, some issue of one thing being owned, not the other. Vague as my recall is, it may have been that the house was owned but not the land & this was what my father was angry about. I wish I could remember.( like everyone, I now wish I'd paid more attention to family information discussions in my youth). All I know is that his brother & sister simply walked away from the whole thing empty handed to live in a home close by they owned outrite.

I was unable to discern from the census who owned anything.

ps - thank you for your replies, this site is truly a gem - I've learned so much from it over the years.

[shanew147]

Many people paid ground rent up to the 1970s or so, when there was some sort of scheme setup to allow a buy-out, at a fairly nominal fee if I remember correctly. I remember my parents talking about it.. and delivering a cheque once or twice a year to an address closeby, I think to some sort of intermediary for the Land owner.



Shane