ADAMS HERBERT: James Adams marriage to Sarah Herbert, 1859 - 1867

[lawless48]

I have thoroughlky checked for the marriage of my ancesters, James Adams and Sarah Herbert, which would have been approximately 1859 - 1867?. James was born in Bristol 1842 and Sarah Middlesex St Dunstans 1836: The marraige may have been in Middlesex / Camden/ St Dunstan's> Can anyone help? The Couple had a daughter, Eliza born 1860/ 1 and then there's a gap to Henry Robert Adams, 1867, baptised in Old Pancras Church Camden. Despite trawling the churches and indexes of marriages - no luck. Be grateful for any help: Steve

[jorose]

Have you located the births of both Eliza and Henry Robert, and how sure are you that both of them are the children of James and Sarah?

I can see what might be them in 1871 with three kids in St. James Clerkenwell.
RG 10/387 64/67
James Adams, 29, carman b. Bristol
Sarah, wife, 36, b. London
Eliza, dau, 11, b. London
Henry, son, 4, b. London
James, son, 2, b. London

(James' baptism may be the one at Saint Andrew, Holborn, 2 August 1870)

Given the gap between Eliza and Henry, and the fact that James is a fair bit younger than his wife, there's a good chance that Eliza is the child of Sarah from a previous relationship. The reasons for not finding the marriage might be:
1. Sarah was previously married, and used her married name when marrying James
2. They were not married, for whatever reason (legally couldn't since one or other was still married to previous spouse, just never got around to it, etc).

Do you have them on any other censuses? From which record did you get Sarah's maiden name, and where is she listed as b. St. Dunstans?

[lawless48]

Thank you very much for this help.

I am aware of the census of 1871 and the family: Indeed, rather similar to 1881: The connection to St Dunstan's is that it lists Sarah as birth place, Middlesex St Dunstans:

I have thought about this gap - Eliza  - Henry Robert many times: Yet, I have tried, in vain, to locate a marriage between 1860 and 1867, as you said, she may have been married: But I simply cannot find any marriage for James - a few Sarahs but not a Herbert: My other thought is that Herbert could have been misspelt.

Once again, many thanks and any further help would be welcome

Steve

[tazzie]

hi

 ok this is just speculation but bear with me and read it through...
  Sarah Herbert born June 19 1834 bapt April 3 1842 daughter of Thomas & MaryAnn
     20 Little Whites Alley fathers prof. deceased.
 Thomas Herbert born feb 7 1838 bapt 25 march 1838 son of Thomas & Mary Ann
    30 Little Whites Alley fathers prof shoemaker.

 A marraige to consider...St John the Evangelist Lambeth 1858 sept 16
 Sarah Herbert to Thomas WITTON. Spelt as WHITTON corrected to Witton
  details are  Thomas Witton bach full age artificial florist 15 Ann St father Thomas shoemaker
    Sarah Herbert spin full age same address father Thomas Herbert shoemaker.
The next possible step is ...
 marriage James Adams to a Sarah Wilton in Holborn reg district in 1864. I cannot see details to say that who he married  but Witton & Wilton could be read the same.
  In 1861
  Thomas Witton hd m 30 artificial florist Paddington  (Transcribed as Wetton)
  Sarah               wi m 26                       London
  Eliza  F             dau u 1                          London
  + Maria Ward visiter     artificial florist
 In Clerkenwell RG9/192 f 110 p28.
 So in short was she Sarah Herbert b St Dustans 1834 to Thomas & Maryann
  Is she the same one who married a Thomas Witton?
 Help am I making sense or looking too much?

 Tazzie

[lawless48]

Many thanks for your message and all your kind help. This is plausible and will have to be investigated. The Birth Certificates for Henry Robert, 1867, state Herbert as the maiden name of Sarah as does James. The earliest I have the family is at the baptism address, Judd Street, which is off St Pancras. The Baptism in Old Church St Pancras, at the back of the station. They are next in Cold Harbour Sqaure, off Clerkenwell. This is an area where, having tried to explore the origins of James, I located a James Adams baptised in Bristol, in 1842, to James and Caroline: a Joseph was also baptised at the same time. The Census of 1851, lists the family in St James's Place Clerkenwell, with both James and Joseph, as well as Mum and Dad all having been born in Bristol Somerset and I am 99% certain, this is James. However, by 1861, The family are living in Bread Street, in St Giles Newton Street, but by this time, James and Joseph had left, either married? Oh the frustration. 1861 - 67: I had thought that maybe there was a war? Certainly not the Crimea. However, by the age of 19/ 20 James was not living with his parents. I have tried in vain to locate James on the Census of 1861: If married to Sarah, it would show them living togther at least but to no avail: Which might bear out your hypothesis - ie she was living with someone else? Any help you can give is welcome and thank you so very much for your help. Steve

[jennifer c]

Have you got - Henry Robert Adams marriage-
St.Bartholomew Moor Lane City 23/2/1887

Henry Robert Adams 20 Carman 17 Redcross Street father James Adams - Blacksmith

Mary Ann Street 19 10 Milton Street john Street Costermonger

Jennifer

[lawless48]

Hi Jennifer

Yes, I have had that for many years: Just VERY frustrated, for years, that I have not been able to locate the marriage of James Adams and Sarah Herbert 1860 - 67:

Many thanks again for taking the time to look

Steve

[Eyesee]

Clerkenwell St Philip
1860 Dec 2, Eliza Fanny, d/o Thomas & Sarah WITTON, 18 St Helena Place, Artificial florist, born 1859 Nov 30
Same address as 1861 census

That 1864 marriage looks to be the best bet.

Ian C

[tazzie]

  OOohh my head hurts ...
 Eliza Fanny Witton dies in Holborn in 1875 born @ 1860.
 So same reg district as marriage allbeit a big one . I would also take a punt on the 1864 Holborn marriage just giving James Adams as groom and all the GRO ids

 Tazzie