Trying to trace the marriage of Thomas Race and Emma Pembroke (nee Tallett)

[Daimler Dart]

Yes, you're correct as Emma Tallet was born in Deptford. I mentioned Greenwich as that was the district. On the 1911 Census, it shows Thomas (+possible indistinct initial) Race age 48 Emma Race age 44 + 3 children (Alice, Ethel, Harry) & 1 deceased child (any ideas how I trace the name of the deceased child?).  The length of marriage is cited as 12 years (but Emma Pembroke in 1901 Census is shown as the head and a widow living with her 3 children. I have used every possible combination of name and initial for the pair. Have been trying to trace a marriage for the past 6 month(no success yet).

Thank you for your continued interest.

[Gadget]

Did you see the death record that I found for John Pembroke? This fits with the 12 years marriage

Death in the GRO Marine Death  1846-1902

1898 Page 32
Vessel - Tern
John Pembroke aged 35. Died 'at sea'

The cert can be ordered through the GRO online service as normal

I don't think they (she and Thomas) actually married, especially given her name on the death cert.


gnu

[Ermintrude46]

Hmmmm, if that is Emma's husband's death maybe it was Thomas Race who wasn't free to marry.  Have you found him on the censuses before he and Emma got together?  This could be the missing child who died young:

Births Dec 1900 
Race  Annie     Greenwich  1d 967   

Deaths Dec 1900
Race  Annie  0  Greenwich  1d 564

Ermy

[Daimler Dart]

Thanks again for your interest and research.  I have thought that perhaps my grandfather Thomas was not free to marry. What is strange is that my father told me that he had 12 siblings, though it is only me (from a family of six children) that recalls this.  I can only trace 9 children (2 deceased) through Emma Pembroke/Race. I have thought that it is possible that my grandfather married before meeting Emma. That fits ..... but 1871 census shows him (Thomas Race) in a workhouse / 1881 shows him living with mother Hannah & William (brother) 1891 census shows him living with Hannah & William. He disappears in 1901 (there is mention of a Thomas Race in 1901 but he was from Durham). The 1911 Census shows him living with Emma Race (wife of 12 years) and children Alice / Ethel / Harry + 1 child deceased. He disappears from the records for 20 years, so I guess that he could have married (but I can find no trace of a marriage). I have obtained the birth certificate that you mention for Annie Race, but the parentage is wrong. This is becoming quite a brainteaser!!
Can you suggest how, or help with tracing my grandmother's grave/burial place? She was cited on her death certificare as Emma Pembroke, widow of John Pembroke. She died on 4 September 1943 at the County Hospital Orpington. Address on d?cert was 28 Portland Road Mottingham, SE9. If you can figure this out you will be my hero for life.
Thanks again, god bless and good night.

Tom Race (yes, I share grandfather's name)

[Ermintrude46]

Funnily enough, my nan lived in Kimmeridge Road, Mottingham, just a few streets away from Portland Road.  My nan was buried in Grove Park Cemetary, in Marvels Lane, as this is/was the local cemetary run by the London Borough of Lewisham (though technically that bit of Mottingham is actually under the London Borough of Bromley).  You can apply for a search of Lewisham burial/cremation records here http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/birthsdeathsmarriages/Pages/Historical-records.aspx
Would probably be worth checking under both names of Pembroke and Race, tho' possibly she was buried as Pembroke but any headstone may have shown Race to keep up appearances  

How about this child:

Births Jun 1899 Pembroke  William     Greenwich  1d 1073   
Deaths Jun 1901 Pembroke  William  1  Greenwich  1d 537

No other Race children seem to fit the bill in Greenwich, tho' could have died in hospital out of the area I guess.
Ermy 

[Daimler Dart]

Thanks again, your marvellous.
I have contacted the Lewisham office re burials/cremations. No luck there or in Greenwich or Bexley. Bromley seems a good bet. but requires a £39 fee to search. This is now in hand. I will let you know how I get on.
Re the deceased child on the 1911 census, I will obtain the birth and death records on the numbers that you supplied. Again, I will update you.

I did once live in the Grove Park area as a young man, but have now move to Torquay, in Devon. So it is quite a trudge to go and search the records manually. Thank god for modern internet.

Regarding the info for John Pembroke who died at sea, I have been able to find a very good photo of the Royal Mail SS Trent, the ship that he was on.

Thanks again for you help.

Good luck

Tom Race

[Vicwinann]

Hello,
I have come in late on this discussion so will have to read all the messages properly first to catch up. However, Emma Tallet marr John Pembroke is from the same family of Tallets who married into my maternal Saunders family. Her brother, John, married Elizabeth Jane Saunders, my grandfather's sister.

I don't have much on the Pembrokes and some of what is in the messages is news to me, but I am happy to share. If you send me a private message, I will give you my email address.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Yours
Vicwinann.
PS addition. I have Emma's marriage as 1883 Bethnal Green Reg Dist Sept Qutr but don't have the cert as final proof. Mistranscribed as TALLID

[carol8353]

Emma Tallid married John Pembroke at St James the great Bethnal Green on 6th Aug 1883. He was of full age ,she just 19.He was a plasterer and they both came from Bethnal Green.His dad was Henry Pembroke an engineer and hers Willaim Tallid(deceased)

He signed,she marked with a X .

Witnesses were Frederick Chr. Henry Gutropf and Matilda Julia Lawrence.

Carol

[Vicwinann]

Hello,
Thanks for that, Carol. That has added to my knowledge and  proofs. Emma was actually only 17 so she told a porkie or didn't know her true age. Her father was William, yes, and he died in 1874. The witness names I do not recognise. Matilda Lawrence possibly a married sister of John. His mother was also Matilda. 
Vicwinann