Trying to trace the marriage of Thomas Race and Emma Pembroke (nee Tallett)

[Daimler Dart]

I have been unsuccessful in tracing the marriage of my Grandfather Thomas Race (born Limehouse London) April 1863, died 8 August 1938 and my grandmother Emma Tallett / nee Pembroke (born Greenwich 1866). They had 3 surviving children, Alice, Ethel and Harry. I believe that my grandmother died 4 September 1943 in Orpington, under the name Emma Pembroke.  I have the 3 birth certificates of their children. On all 3 certificates the mother is cited as Emma Race, sometimes formerly Tallett or Pembroke.  In Aug 1883 Emma Tallett married John Pembroke and they had 4 children. The 1901 Census shows her as a widow.  Can it be that Thomas and Emma never married. Love to know the answer to that question as I have been investigating for 6 months and cannot find the answer.
Any assistance gratefully received.

[Ermintrude46]

If Emma died as Mrs Pembroke then it is pretty certain that she never married Thomas Race.  Have you been able to identify the informant on her death certificate?  S/he wouldn't have had to show a marriage certificate when registering the births of their children and no doubt they thought of themselves as married.  Have you been able to trace the death of John Pembroke?
Ermy

[charlotteCH]

In what year was the first child born to Thomas and Emma?

charlotte

[charlotteCH]

and welcome to rootschat .... forgot to say that last post

charlotte

[Daimler Dart]

If Emma died as Mrs Pembroke then it is pretty certain that she never married Thomas Race.  Have you been able to identify the informant on her death certificate?  S/he wouldn't have had to show a marriage certificate when registering the births of their children and no doubt they thought of themselves as married.  Have you been able to trace the death of John Pembroke?
Ermy

No, I have been trying  to trace death of John Edward Pembroke. I can find him in the marriage, baptism and census records. The last record of him was in 1891. The 1901 Census shows Emma Pembroke as 'head' and a widow. Emma had a daughter Jane Sarah, who married a W.J. Cromarty. It was W.J. Cromarty who reported the death of Emma Pembroke  on 4 September 1943. Cromarty is mentioned as the son-in-law.  Emma Pembroke's death cert also mentions her as a widow of John Edward Pembroke (a ships fireman). Can he have dies overseas?  This is important to my family, so thank you so much for your time.

[Daimler Dart]

In what year was the first child born to Thomas and Emma?

December 1902, Alice Julia Race was born to Thomas Frederick Race and Emma Race (formerly Pembroke).  Dec 1905  2nd child born was Ethel, Thomas Race father, Emma Race (formerly Pembroke). My father Harry Race was born 14 Dec 1908, father Thomas Race / Emma Tallett formerly Tallett. The difficulty in tracing my grandfather has been that he was known in the family as Fred, I can trace him on 14 occassions, on 13 he uses Thomas Race, but his death certificate shows Frederick Thomas Race. Strangely, the burial register at the cemetry lists him as Thomas Frederick Race. I have obtained (what I believe) is his birth cert, where he is named as Thomas Race (no mention of Frederick). There are many men that have the the name Thomas Race, but they mostly seem to eminane from the Durham area. I am shure that my grandfather never left London. He lived all his life in the Deptford area of London (Kent in 1860). Thank you so much for your interest. This really bugging me and I have reached a dead end. 

[Gadget]

Hi and welcome from me too 

Nothing on a marriage so far, though I agree with Ermintrude that if she died as Pembroke, it is unlikely that she married Thomas Race.

I did find this though,  which fits John Pembroke's age:

Death in the GRO Marine Death  1846-1902

1898 Page 32
Vessel - Tern
John Pembroke aged 35. Died 'at sea'

The cert can be ordered through the GRO online service as normal


gnu

[Gadget]

Hi Again

I forgot to ask if you'd checked them out on the 1911? This will give you more information about the length of the marriage. Although this might not  be correct if they weren't ever married.

We can't give any details here because of Rootschat's rules  but you could find them easily using the information that you have. Also, see

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,492718.0.html


gnu

PS - I see from the 1891 and 1901 that Emma is down as born Deptford not Greenwich

[Daimler Dart]

Hi Again

I forgot to ask if you'd checked them out on the 1911? This will give you more information about the length of the marriage. Although this might not  be correct if they weren't ever married.

We can't give any details here because of Rootschat's rules  but you could find them easily using the information that you have. Also, see

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,492718.0.html


gnu

PS - I see from the 1891 and 1901 that Emma is down as born Deptford not Greenwich