William Henry Sandmann Liverpool born 1863

[Alexj]

I hope somebody can help. I am totally confused with a my great grandfather William Henry Sandmann Born Liverpool O-D 1863 but then disappears off all census records until he reappears marrying my great grandmother Agnes Hamilton Carter (born J-M 1863) on 25/12/1883 at St Thomas liverpool. There is a George D Sandmann shown on 1881 census records born liverpool 1862/63 but William Henry had a brother called George D Sandmann born whitechapel 1857. There is a line published on Ancestry that the George D sandmann shown on the 1881 census is actually William Henry Sandmann !!!. Can anybody help with regards to confirming William Henry's birth,eg baptism records etc i do not think he was catholic and where to start searching to finding where he has been until his marriage. This person is a real Jekyll and Hyde and i cannot trace his history. His parents are George Diedrich Sandmann (German from Hannover) and Mary Ann Sandmann (nee Jenkins from London)   

[wozzle]

not exactly what you were after but if it is of any interest here his his sons birth/baptism
william henry sandman son of william henry sandman/agnes hamilton
was born on the 24th january 1891
was baptised on the 15th march 1891 at st.thomas church,liverpool,lancs
address at time of baptism was; 8,bessemer street,wellington road
fathers occupation was; brass finisher
baptism was performed by james.h.m.barrow

[rosie99]

Hi Alexj

Welcome to rootschat 

There are marriages for George D and William H on lancashireOPC so they can't be the same person 
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/tocs.html

Marriage 28th March 1880 St Michael in the Hamlet, Aigburth, Lancashire
George Denwick Sandman age 22 Sugar Refiner Bachelor of Beaufort St
Louisa Dickson age 18 Spinster of Mann St
Groom's Father George Sandman, Sugar Refiner
Bride's Father Robert Dickson, Ship Joiner
Witnesses Robert Dickson and  Mary Ann Sandman
   
Marriage 25th December 1883 St Thomas, Liverpool, Lancashire
William Henry Sandmann age  21 Brassfinisher Bachelor of 7 Kent Square
Agnes Hamilton Carter age  21 Spinster of 4 Egerton Street
Groom's Father George Denrick Sandmann, Sugar Boiler
Bride's Father John Carter, Hair dresser
Witnesses Robert Greenhill and  Mary Jane Christie

Rosie   

[wozzle]

george married in 1880 and was a sugar refiner
the george on the 1881 is down as brass finisher apprentice and is not married your william was a brass finisher
so it is quite possible that the george sandmann on 1881 is in fact your william

[rosie99]

george married in 1880 and was a sugar refiner
the george on the 1881 is down as brass finisher apprentice and is not married your william was a brass finisher
so it is quite possible that the george sandmann on 1881 is in fact your william

I would agree with wozzle 
In 1881
George Sandman bn London age 24 occ Sugar Refiner is with his wife Louisa age 20 bn Liverpool and their daughter age 2 months bn Liverpool at 3H Rutter St, Toxteth Park (they also have some lodgers)

They are also in Rutter St in 1891with children Louisa 7, George 4 and Margaret 1
RG12/2931 f7 p8

[Alexj]

Hi everyone

thanks for the welcome Rosie, the more you look at this the more complicated in my mind it becomes. if it is possible that the person George in 1881 is william Henry where has william been for the past census return in 1871 he has never been mentioned before, only George D born in whitechapel is mentioned in 1871. Any ideas where to look for William Henrys birth in parish records in 1863.

Thanks for everyones help

[rosie99]

I can't see William anywhere in 1871 but it is always likely he was just missed off, maybe by the enumerator and was living with the family. I did wonder if he was at school or in hospital but couldn't see anything likely.

I see no reason for it not to be him with his parents in 1881, especially as George junior had married and we have him in 1881 with his wife. The age of 17/19 would tie in as does his occupation and place of birth, the only thing that is wrong is his christian names.

I presume you have George jnrs christening in St Philip's Stepney 20th March 1859 and Gge Snrs marriage to Mary Ann 29th July 1849 at Holy Trinity, Minories.   Going by these two records I would expact it is likely that George was christened Cof E in the Toxteth area.  Sorry I don't have local Liverpool knowledge. 

Incidentally some of the baptisms for William and Agnes's children are on the lancashireopc link I have given

[Alexj]

Rosie you are a mind of information. I have been guessing at george D birth date and you have confirmed it. I did not have the christening info of St Philips in stepney in March 1859 but it ties in with my thoughts that his birth is the one George Dederich Sandemant born J-S 1858 in St Geo East. I have the other info but thanks again, really appreciated.
All i need is to get to the bottom of William henrys Birth details 

[PaulSand]

Hi Alexj, seems we have comman ancestors. George Diedrich Sandmann was my Great great grandfather and George Denwick Sandmann was my great grandfather and Walter Joseph Sandaman was my grandfather be interested to see how you have been getting on tracing your side

Regard Paul