Western Australia - George CHURCH - Ernestina CHURCH

[debrao]

George 29 and Mary 24

[Essie]

Hi Debrao

I believe "your" Ernestina was in fact the Ernestina born 1880 in VIC to George William CHURCH (born 30 Sep 1850 in SA) and his first wife Mary Elizabeth MEYERS.

Since Ernestina's mother married a second time it is obvious the marriage ended, and the reason why George William married Jane MOORE.

This man who died in the Wellington district in 1937 was in fact George William CHURCH of Coolup.
CHURCH  George W
Year 1937     
WELLINGTON  district reg #119
   

The West Australian (Perth, WA) < Monday 24 January 1938 > 
PUBLIC NOTICES.

In The  SUPREME COURT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA.

PROBATE JURISDICTION.

N THE MATTER of the WILL of GEORGE WILLIAM CHURCH in the said Will called 'George Church’,  late of Coolup, In the State of Western Australia, farmer, deceased.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that all persons having claims or demands against the Estate of the above-named GEORGE WILLIAM CHURCH, in the said Will called "George Church." late of Coolup in the State of Western Australia, farmer, deceased, are hereby required to forward particulars in writing of such claims or demands to THE WEST AUSTIRALIAN TRUSTEE EXECUTOR AND AGENCY COMPANY, LIMITED, of 135 St. George's-ter.. Perth, the Executor named, in the said Will of the said deceased on or before the 28th day of February. 1938, . . .

Essie

[debrao]

Thanks for your post Essie.  I thought the same but what I can't understand is why Ernestina turns up in Western Australia, but there is no record of any of the other 8 or so children of George and Mary doing so.  I also can't find any record of a divorce between George and Mary.  Hopefully when I receive the marriage certificates I am waiting for the mystery will be solved.

[cando]

I am also convinced this is George William CHURCH b. 1850 Adelaide who married a c15 year old [according to her age on Ernestina's birth cert] Elizabeth Mary MEYER and Jane MOORE in 1903. I can only find one
birth for an Ernestina CHURCH born in Australia and that is the one in 1880 Vic.

I think you must consider there is every possibility there was no divorce.

It would be interesting to see this marriage cert.

1900/C1965
BARR    Alan   
CHURCH Elizabeth Mary

Not a happy marriage
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jd5/

Link to legal notice for George...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jd1/

Hope those certs don't take too long

Cheers
Cando

[debrao]

Well part of the mystery is solved now that I have the 2 marriage certificates.  According to Ernestina Church's marriage certificate, her mother was Mary Jane Elizabeth Meyer and her father George Church.  I guess I never know how it is that Ernestina (who was 17 at the time of her marriage to Daniel Rule) came to WA with or after her father while her mother and the rest of her siblings remained in Victoria.

What makes it even more interesting is the marriage certificate of George Church and Jane Moore.  On that certificate, 52 year old George Church is listed as "widower" although we know that Mary Elizabeth Meyers was still alive at the time and married to a Mr Barr.  The same Mr Barr who tried to kill her some years later in Townsville (thanks Cando).

Perhaps this is why I cannot find a record of a divorce between Mary and George and that they simply parted ways and later married other people without bothering to obtain a divorce.  It would be interesting to see the marriage certificate between Mary Meyer Church and Mr Barr to see whether she listed herself as divorced or widowed.

Thanks to everyone for their comments.  If you have anything further to add or any other information, please post!

[cando]

Thank you so much for posting the information . 

I don't think there was a divorce and George listing himself as a widower says it all.  Yes it would certainly be interesting to see Elizabeth Mary's 2nd marriage cert

Cheers
Cando

[cando]

Just a thought....surely Ernestine would have known her mother was still alive when George re-married.

Cando

[debrao]

You would have thought so.  However, the mystery deepens.  Several family trees on Ancestry.com list Elizabeth Ernestina Church  or Elizabeth Ernestina Jane Church as a daughter of George Church and Mary Elizabeth Meyer (or Elizabeth Mary Meyer) although they provide no citations for the name and attach Ernestina Church's (born 1880) birth certificate as a source (while stating in their trees that Elizabeth Ernestina was born in 1872.  Elizabeth Ernestina Church lived in QLD and married twice (Arthur Taylor and Robert Urquhart) and died in Townsville in 1950.  Her death record states her father as George Church and mother as Elizabeth Meyer. (I note that Mary Elizabeth Meyer married Alan Barr in 1900 and lived in Townsville).

I recall that Ernestina Church's birth certificate recorded her as having (among other siblings) a sister Jane who was then 9 years old.  Perhaps the "Elizabeth Ernestina or Elizabeth Ernestina Jane" Church is Jane Church sister of Ernestina Church and is was Jane who married Messrs Taylor and Urquhart.  Why though would she be referred to in her marriage and death certificates as Elizabeth Ernestina rather than Jane, particularly as she had a younger sister Ernestina (who for reasons unknown went to live with George Church in WA). 

What else comes out of George Church and Jane Moore's marriage certificate is that George lists his mother as Hannah Smarts or Swarts although his birth record states her name was Hannah Craxton.

[cando]

Going back to square one...and it seems George Wm's mother died when he was about four years old so perhaps understandable to make an error with his mother's surname when marrying for the 2nd time in 1903.  There is only one George William CHURCH born in South Australia c1850.

Firstly I treat online trees with a great deal of caution.  So many are simply copied from one another.  A tree should be well referenced with all sources and if it were my tree I would attach all births deaths and marriage certificates that I have in my possession.  My very extensive tree will never be placed online as already there is much misinformation on various websites and the authors refuse to accept my corrections [info from bdm certs]   I always offer to share information including copies of any documents I have.  Family history researchers with 'closed minds'      Climbing down from my soapbox now

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Dec 1845
CHURCH Isaac  Wellingbro' 15/843    
CRAXTON Hannah Wellingboro 15/843

Births Mar 1847 
CHURCH  Thomas Craxton  Wellingbro 15/403   

CHURCH Isaac, Hanna nee CRAXTON, son ?Thomas [died at sea] arrived in SA 16 Jul 1848 aboard the SIBELLA from London via Plymouth.

http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1848Sibella.htm
According to this link Thomas, son of Isaac died on April 13th.  There is diary of the journey on this link as well.

Arrival
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jjx/

Births in SA
CHURCH Mary Elizabeth
5 Nov 1848
Father Isaac CHURCH  Mother Anna CRAXTON
At New Tiers   Ade 2/97

CHURCH George William
30 Sep 1850
Father Isaac CHURCH  Mother Hannah CRAXTON
At  New Tiers   Ade 3/115

CHURCH Isaac Charles
16 Sep 1852
Father Isaac CHURCH  Mother Hannah CRAXTON
At Adelaide   Ade 4/77

Death in Victoria
CHURCH Hannah
Father George CRACKSTON  Mother Elizabeth
1854  Reg#2101

Isaac's 2nd marriage
CHURCH Isaac
DAWSON Jane
1855 Reg#2678

Births
CHURCH Robert
Father Isaac  Mother Jane LOWES
At Woodford  1859  Reg#3361

CHURCH Thomas
Father Isaac  Mother Jane DAWSON
At Terang  1861  Reg#21389
 
CHURCH Louisa Jane
Father Isaac  Mother Jane LOWES
At Eddi  1865  Reg#2078

Deaths
CHURCH Robert
Father Isaac  Mother Jane
5 years   1865  Reg#4878

CHURCH Thomas
Father Isaac  Mother Jane
3 years   1865  Reg#4896

Deaths - Jane was obviously married to a DAWSON prior to marrying Isaac.
CHURCH Jane
Father LEURS Robert  Mother Jane MURRAY
At Berwick 83 years  1906  Reg#4455
Buried at Berwick Cemetery

This must be Isaac's death as the Berwick cemetery has an Isaac buried in 1912
CHURCH Isaac
Parents unknown
At South Yarra  87 years  1912  Reg#7699

and death of son Isaac Charles born 1852

CHURCH Isaac
Father Isaac Church  Mother Mary Anna Craxton
At Gembrook  78 years  Reg#9282

As I mentioned before genealogy is not an exact science and many people use different given names.  If you are so concerned with "Elizabeth Ernestina or Elizabeth Ernestina Jane" I suggest that you purchase some of her certs to validate the information already found.  Perhaps Elizabeth Mary BARR's death certificate may have accurate information.  The info should possibly be 'born c1872' and even then who really knows the exact date if her birth wasn't registered.  Possibly estimated from marriage and death certs....who knows!!

I cannot see a birth for a Jane CHURCH  to George W CHURCH and Elizabeth Mary MEYER.  I wonder if she was born before they married and is not registered.

You have not commented on the prison record for George CHURCH son of Isaac CHURCH.  I have searched for the index entry but I understand there are volumes so fragile that they haven't been indexed.   Marion BUTTON obviously had access to these volumes when she was compiling her own indexes at PROV.

I could find more but it's late for me now.  I don't think there is any mystery

Cheers
Cando