Edward ROBERTS

[~MERLIN~]

I'd say that it's a very high possibility that the family went to NZ not just Ellen 

NZ marriage:

ROBERTS Thomas Earl m. CAIN Honorah 13 Feb 1889 WELLINGTON #224

Golden Wedding Announcement 1939:

ROBERTS—CAIN.—At Wellington, on February 13, 1889, by the Rev. Mr. Pinney, Hannorah Cain to Thomas Earl Roberts. Present address: 139 Elizabeth Street.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0j1i/

NZ Death:

ROBERTS Thomas Earl age 83yrs d. 1949 WELLINGTON #30627

Burial at KARORI cemetery:

ROBERTS Thomas Earl age 83yrs
Occupation:    BAKER
Service Date:    29-10-1949
Service Provided:    Burial
Cemetery:    Karori
Section:    ROM CATH2
Plot Number:    159 B
Record Number:    22361

[Pauline H]

Thankyou Merlin, the information you have given me on Thomas is really helpful especially the fact that he lived in NZ. Thomas had a twin brother named Henry and I am sure you are correct that the whole family came to NZ. I have yet to check all this out. The twins sister Helena (Ellen), calculated on dates I have, was 15 at the time of coming to NZ and I could not imagine her coming on her own. My resources to check are very limited at this time, due to ongoing major earthquakes causing damage to our main library. However, I am attempting to find out more on their parents Mary Ann Caulfield and Edward Roberts and when or if they actually emigrated to Australia from the UK, had their children (all born in Ballarat) before coming to NZ. Once again thankyou.

[Pauline H]

If you are wanting assistance of a forum to add to your knowledge of Helena Roberts and her origins, and the later life of her parents and siblings, the information contained  in her marriage and death certificates will be useful.

I am reading your initial enquiry to include her family, and specifically, the circumstances of her arrival in NZ.


"....Any ideas who she came to NZ with as I have no records here to check at the moment."

"...I also have no information on whether or not Edward and Mary Ann emigrated to Australia from the UK before or even if they came to NZ with their daughter.."

A marriage certificate would have witnesses, who might quite likely be a close relative...sibling or parent. It should have name of parents, including mother's maiden name. You are giving this as "..possibly Cornfield", so daughter's marriage certificate might give you a name.

If it identifies a church, that church might be where any brothers/sisters in NZ might also marry.

Marriage or death certificate might give occupation of her father. If it is a trade, then sons might have same occupation, which could assist in locating them, if they also lived in NZ.

Because you are looking to confirm details such as place and year of birth, and you have an indication of a year of arrival, and her age, I was wondering if this had come from a death certificate. If it had then it is worth considering that death certificate information can be less that accurate, in which case the year of arrival, and age, might be out by a few years.

A death certificate will give a place of burial. If other family went to NZ with her, they might also have died and be buried in the area, even same cemetery.


Hi, Helena (Ellen) Roberts born 1863 at Ballarat. (no other date). Mother: Mary Ann Corfield (Caulfield), Father: Edward Roberts. Siblings: Twins Thomas Earl and Henry Roberts born 1865 at Ballarat. (no other date). Helena died on 6th August 1928 and was buried with William Smith died 2nd January 1929 at Bromley Cemetary. She lived in New Zealand for 50 years. Before Helena and William died, they married in Christchurch on the 22nd January 1925 after living together for many years. The m.c. states William became widowed in 1905 and Helena (spinster). There were 3 children, one son named William who came from William's first marriage to Emily Hawton and two daughters one named Ellen Roberts (my grandmother) and Violet. I have Ellen's (daughter) m.c. from her second marriage, stating that William Smith was her father. The info I have has been calculated from dates on the certificates and what little my own mother knows. If there is anything more specific please let me know.

[cando]

Hi, Helena (Ellen) Roberts born 1863 at Ballarat. (no other date). Mother: Mary Ann Corfield (Caulfield), Father: Edward Roberts. Siblings: Twins Thomas Earl and Henry Roberts born 1865 at Ballarat. (no other date). Helena died on 6th August 1928 and was buried with William Smith died 2nd January 1929 at Bromley Cemetary. She lived in New Zealand for 50 years. Before Helena and William died, they married in Christchurch on the 22nd January 1925 after living together for many years. The m.c. states William became widowed in 1905 and Helena (spinster). There were 3 children, one son named William who came from William's first marriage to Emily Hawton and two daughters one named Ellen Roberts (my grandmother) and Violet. I have Ellen's (daughter) m.c. from her second marriage, stating that William Smith was her father. The info I have has been calculated from dates on the certificates and what little my own mother knows. If there is anything more specific please let me know.

Hi Pauline

Ellen's birth certificate would be helpful - Victorian birth certificates detail where and when the parents were married; the parents ages and places of birth and father's occupation.

Images of certificates can be purchased online [AUD$17.50] and immediately dowloaded.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Information on all certificates in Victoria
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html

Cheers
Cando

[Pauline H]

Hi Cando - I do intend to purchase Helena (Ellen) Roberts birth certificate from Australia. I was hoping to get more specific info apart from the 1863 year of birth. However I do have parents names on the Death certificate. I find it quite expensive so want to make it as sure as I can before purchasing. Thank you, Pauline

[Pauline H]

Hi again Cando, just to let you know I went and purchased Ellen's birth record. Thankyou.

[scullywully]

Ellen (helena) Roberts was my great great grandmother from her marriage to Orlando Winnie. I have been researching her for 10 years as she disappears off the radar at age 41. I would really appreciate information about her as I know a lot about her to age 41 from the newspaper articles but nothing after. My great grandmother was broken hearted when Ellen,  her mother disappeared and she was just five... thank you

[dhouston]

If you are wanting assistance of a forum to add to your knowledge of Helena Roberts and her origins, and the later life of her parents and siblings, the information contained  in her marriage and death certificates will be useful.

I am reading your initial enquiry to include her family, and specifically, the circumstances of her arrival in NZ.


"....Any ideas who she came to NZ with as I have no records here to check at the moment."

"...I also have no information on whether or not Edward and Mary Ann emigrated to Australia from the UK before or even if they came to NZ with their daughter.."

A marriage certificate would have witnesses, who might quite likely be a close relative...sibling or parent. It should have name of parents, including mother's maiden name. You are giving this as "..possibly Cornfield", so daughter's marriage certificate might give you a name.

If it identifies a church, that church might be where any brothers/sisters in NZ might also marry.

Marriage or death certificate might give occupation of her father. If it is a trade, then sons might have same occupation, which could assist in locating them, if they also lived in NZ.

Because you are looking to confirm details such as place and year of birth, and you have an indication of a year of arrival, and her age, I was wondering if this had come from a death certificate. If it had then it is worth considering that death certificate information can be less that accurate, in which case the year of arrival, and age, might be out by a few years.

A death certificate will give a place of burial. If other family went to NZ with her, they might also have died and be buried in the area, even same cemetery.

I have birth certificates for Ellen and the twins, Thomas Earl and Henry Harold (Pim) Roberts.
I have a copy of the Alpe marriage.
Ellen married Daniel McPherson and had a son Malcolm, he died early.
Do you want to share information?
Regards Daren.

[cando]

Relevant thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,575178.msg4274805.html#msg4274805