Finding G Grandfather Thomas - need help!

[hasta]

This is slightly messy so do be warned !

I am looking for Thomas Brophy. Born Dublin City, married in Blackrock, returned to the city with his brood in 1895.
I have his marriage cert which indicates a birth of 1864, and his death cert which indicates a birth of 1866. I'm more comfortable with 1864 as that leaves him old enough to marry when he did. (1886 ) Parents names are Michael Brophy and Anne.

Now, despite endless searching, I can't find a birth of a Thomas Brophy in the right time frame to a Michael Brophy and Anne.

But I do find one for a Michael Brophy and Eliza Heavy/Heasy (1864- St Pauls on RootsIreland)

They have Thomas,  15 June 1864 and a Female on 18 Oct 1866, and then they seem to just disappear.

Then I found records for a Michael Brophy and Anne Fitzpatrick having 2 girls baptised at St Marys Pro. Mary Anne in 1870 and Bridget in 1873.
(this is the correct area I would expect all the members of this side of the family to be living at)
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/d31c980194683
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/52b0e60112581

The reason I am particularly interested in this family (apart from the parents names) is that I later find a very bizarre address coincidence between this Mary Anne Brophy and the Thomas Brophy born 1864-66 that I am searching for.

So my thoughts are that Michael marries Eliza Heavy, has 2 children, my Thomas and an unnamed girl, then Eliza dies sometime around 1866, and by 1870 when Mary Anne Brophy is born he has remarried to Anne Fitzpatrick and goes on to have the 2 girls.
 
Trouble is, I can't find a death record for Eliza Heavy/Brophy. Nor a Marriage for Michael Brophy and Anne Fitzpatrick, and despite the births of the 2 girls, Michael Brophy and Anne Fitzpatrick seem to disappear as well.

I know this may seem a bit far fetched but I have the exact same scenario on the other side of the family and had the census's not recorded it I would never have made the connection.

[hasta]

P.S I meant to add. Has anyone got any advice on how I can proceed - forward, backward, horizontal I'm open to any ideas. !

[DudleyWinchurch]

A general search at: www.glasnevintrust.ie

shows an Eliza Brophy, age 34, buried at Glasnevin in 1868.

This seems to be the only plausible one there within your time-frame, but it was not a very unusual name as there were a couple of infants of that name buried within a couple of  years around that time.  This included a child of 6 months within the same year.  Both have extended records available (possibbly the same one?).

[taramcdsmall]

Hiya

Just a few theory's LOL !

Are you talking about the Thomas Brophy in Sherrif Street in 1901 ?

If so he was married to Mary Shannon - is that right ?

If so the godmother at Kathleen Brophy's baptism was a Sarah Brophy (a possible sister of Thomas ?)

Anyway I saw this - and maybe Anna was short for Anastasia ? Long shot I know !

SARAH BROPHY 
15 January 1878 
ISLAND BRIDGE 
Father MICHAEL BROPHY 
Mother ANASTATIA FETHERSTONE 

You then mentioned Mary Anne Brophy - The address connection (is she the one living in Sherrif Place ?)

If so she is actually Mary Anne Mc Court / Mc Cartt / Mc Carthy (spelt differently on a few different documents).

She married John Brophy. This John Brophy's father was a Patrick Brophy.

Am not sure if any of this will help or confuse you more - hopefully not the latter !

Tara

[eadaoin]

Eliza Brophy, 34, buried in Glasnevin 1868

the address seems to contain "33" "south" "william" "st" .. (check this for yourself to be sure)

this may help to confirm, (or muddy the waters further! since this is southside)

eadaoin

edit: it looks as if the 2 baby Eliza(beth)s may be from Clarendon Market and Drury Lane

[hasta]

Cheers eadoin - I'm getting a bit desperate here so I bit the bullet and forked out a tenner - You are spot on -

BROPHY ELIZA
Last address:   33 SOUTH WILLIAM ST
Date of death   09 Feb 1868
Age   34   

BROPHY WILLIAM
Last address:   3 COPPINGERS ROW
Date of death   07 Jul 1872
Age   9M

BROPHY WILLIAM
Last address:   41 CLARENDON ST
Date of death   15 Dec 1867
Age   5

BROPHY   ELIZA
Last address:   10 DRURY LANE
Date of death   07 Aug 1868
Age   6M

BROPHY ANASTATIA
Last address:   3 COPPINGERS ROW
Date of death   08 Dec 1870
Age   1M

Without realising it both DudleyWinchurch  and taramcdsmall (cheers) have sent me in the same direction.
Michael Brophy/Anantasia Fetherston.
The record for Willliam (9 M) mentions them as parents  I had previously done some work on them and dropped it mostly because the didn't marry until 1868
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/fc83020441271 so I need to go back on what else I found on them. (I'm a terrible record keeper but I seem to remember about 7 children)
Either 2 of the children (born after July 1868) don't belong to them or they have had illegitimate children. Pity there is no informant for the other 3 children. Maybe I'll call Glasnevin and see if they have anything to add.

[taramcdsmall]

Hey Adee101

Do you think Anastasia is the "Anna" that you are looking for as if you look back on irishgenealogy on some of the births of her children with Michael Brophy she refers to herself as Anna.

Also if you look at the birth of the Eliza (that you think is a sister to Thomas) well look at the sponsor

Name ELIZABETH BROPHY 
DOB 1866 
Address 2 CHATHAM MARKET 
Father MICHAEL BROPHY 
Mother ELIZA KEANEY 

Sponsor 1 WILLIAM COFFEY
Sponsor 2 ANASTASIA GETHERSTAN (This was mistranscribed is actually Fetherston)

It looks like Michael had Thomas and Eliza with his first wife. Anastasia was maybe a friend of the family and he married her after his first wife died.

Michael Brophy & Anastasia's marriage is on irishgenealogy in 1868 in St. Andrew's !

Tara

[myluck!]

not sure if you have seen this one but this looks like Mary Anne's marriage especially as a Brigid Brophy is a witness
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ipd/

There are also two children listed on Irish Genealogy:
William bap 1896 and Michael bap 1897

1901 census - I can't see an obvious family

1911 census they are still on Tyrone St:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Tyrone_St__Upper/29591/

[cwood91262]

Adee, I'm following this thread!  So everyone knows, Adee and I are acquainted with each other through that Brophy/Shannon marriage and she got me involved to drive me crazy on the ancestry of Thomas Brophy!  Anyway, I have to give some serious wondering to that Michael Brophy/Eliza possibility.  It would track quite well, with a very young Thomas losing his mother and his father remarrying, with young Thomas really only knowing an Ann as a mother, so either Anne Featherstone or Anne Fitzpatrick.  I think one thing we need to do is get the marriage of Michael Brophy and Anna Featherstone.  It will tell us if he was a widower or a bachelor at the time of the marriage.  If widower, we keep him in the mix, if a bachelor, we put him on the back burner.  If we could find the Brophy/Fitzpatrick marriage, I'd say the same, get it and see if Michael was a widower. 

Good horizontal thinking, everyone!

Cindy Wood