Thomas Lyson Mayor of Oldham 1957-8

[millymcb]

Why doesn't Thomas or his dad Joshua appear on the indexes of the 1911 census?

I can't see them either

Milly

[carol8353]

Why doesn't Thomas or his dad Joshua appear on the indexes of the 1911 census?

I can't see them either

Milly

There's a Joshua Young in the same household as a 7 year old Thomas Young in Oldham in 1911

[millymcb]

Poor chap seems to have a bit of an identity crisis

Milly

[Mooncoin]

John Young's occupation is definitely a steeplejack he died in a fall and Betty Young remarried John Gaskell the lodger that had lived with the family for 10 yrs. it hadn't occurred to me that Joshua her 1st son was the father of Thomas Lyson. Thomas Lyson was always referred to my mother as "a Cousin" that would be correct if Joshua is the father.

I had Joshua mistakenly down as Josiah. which made me look for brothers etc of Betty Lyson when really it is her son, there is an anomaly  why would he revert back to Lyson when he was a Young, although this is the 3rd time something like this has gone on in my family.

[carol8353]

Either he wanted to sound posher than plain old Young 

Or perhaps something nasty had happened in the Young family and they wished to distance themselves from that?

Carol

[millymcb]

I wonder if Thomas went back to Lyson because he wanted to get into local politics and thought it a better "local" name?


John Gaskell - aha - I can see him with Betty in 1901 and 1911 now so that makes sense.


So - there are a still a few anomolies...

Is the 1872 marriage for Betty and John Young the right one are do we still need one in 1877?
And who are Betty's parents?


Do you have a marriage cert for John Gaskell and Betty in 1894 - that would confirm her father..If it is Joshua then that leads back to the 1872 marriage to John Young.

And is Betty Lyson(s) the same one living with baby Joshua and her mother (remarried as Atherton) in 1871


Oh - and John's occupation change to steeplejack of course... He's a coal miner in 1891 (at Atherton Road with Betty and the children).  Maybe he just fancied a change?  Or couldn't work underground any more for some reason? Or maybe he had two jobs?  (Is steeplejack on his death certificate, or do you have a news article or something like that?)

Milly

[millymcb]

I've just thought... when did Joshua Young (Lyson) die?  Perhaps Thomas only changed back to Lyson after that   so as not to annoy or upset his father?


Milly

[Mooncoin]

I know the Atherton Family with Betty Lyson isn't correct for me. If you look, the mother ( can't remember name) has 2 children out of wedlock and with different fathers by the look of it, George the elder boy has a name different to Betty (sister) Lyson ......in the next census they have all changed names to Atherton as the mother has married. Betty Lysons continues through the Census from then on as Betty Atherton.

I need to find a marriage date for John and Betty, the inscription on the teapot could have been done at a later date for sure.
Don't know the father for certain of Betty Lyson. Got a Moses Lyson from Drigg Cumberland and Abigail his wife that looks right. They lived in Broughton west lancashire. That would fit with Betty's dates.

[millymcb]

She's with them again in 1851 - this time clearly written Lysons - wife's daughter - born Hindley

(all born Hindley except James Atherton)
James Atherton   age 32 (engine tender)
Mary Atherton   age 25   (handloom weaver, silk)
George Prescott   age 4 (wife's son)
Betty Lysons   age 2 (wife's daughter)
Thos Horrocks   age 22 (brother in law) (coal miner)
Jane Horrocks   age 21 (silk hand loom weaver)

HO107 - 2200 - 261 - 1


I think ....   Mary Prescott had George out of wedlock, then married Joshua Lyons and had Betty.  Then Joshua died and she married James Atherton.  (There's a family tree on a certain website that has the original marriage certs for both these)

Wouldn't this Betty Lysons born Hindley be a better fit than one born in Broughton?

As you know the marriage date for Betty and John Gaskell for sure...you could probably get her father's name from that.
 

Milly