Don't people realise how much it hurts

[Flattybasher9]

The problem lies in who actually owns the information, and who has access to it. I find it bemusing that I cannot go onto Scotland’s People, spend credits and get information about anyone I wish if they are still living, but I can go down to my local council registrars office, pay an hourly fee, ask them to look up the same record, and tell me ALL the relevant information I wish to know from that record that is contained within, which I then can write down and use as I please.
The government is looking at
"Introduction to the UK Government Licensing Framework"
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/government-licensing/the-framework.htm
I have recently asked them several questions regarding this and await their response.
If people wish to use information related to me in a way which is false, as in their family tree, then this does not affect me at all. It is they who are wrong, not I. It changes nothing in my historic origins.
There is a post and subsequent thread about DNA testing, for trace-ability of origins. One has just to look at history prior to the recording of decently accurate records, about illegitimacy, pillaging and raping that went on in the past, and in some areas of the world still does. Where then is the correction in accuracy of trace-ability when comparing data. There will always be wrong data held in family trees, as the system of data collation will never be perfect.

Regards

Malky

[cocksie]

Have been following this thread with interest, bemusement, embarrassment, indignation (and many other emotions).
1.  The web is a public arena which is something I have tried to make my son understand, yet have been guilty of forgetting myself.
2.  We all make mistakes.  Problem is that "once it is out there it is out there" - even if one tries to correct it or remove it later.
3.  Internet family history "etiquette" is personal and a learning experience.  What one might do as a beginner changes over time, experience, realisation etc.  So we all need to be forgiving.
4.  Its a shock when one finds details of oneself (or close family) online (ie found my overseas birth the other day legally published in gov index which would not be allowed in my current country of residence).  But if I tried hard enough I know I could track my life fairly easily online through "official channels", newspapers etc let alone what could be found easily elsewhere.
5.  No matter how well you think you have "researched" your alleged ancestors (recent and historical) no-one can absolutely "know" that the "milkman" wasn't involved anyway.
6.  Its a changing information world, the ramifications of which are not yet clear
cocksie

[Nick29]

The problem lies in who actually owns the information, and who has access to it. I find it bemusing that I cannot go onto Scotland’s People, spend credits and get information about anyone I wish if they are still living, but I can go down to my local council registrars office, pay an hourly fee, ask them to look up the same record, and tell me ALL the relevant information I wish to know from that record that is contained within, which I then can write down and use as I please.

Which is fine with me, because it's a well-known fact that most of those engaged in identity theft are 'not of these shores'.  I don't think many people are going to be buying a return ticket from Africa to visit a Scottish registrar.   They are also unlikely to purchase expensive memberships to genealogical sites.  But when people are putting the information out there on the internet to be viewed for free, (often with a helpful photo), then why not ?

[Flattybasher9]

Nick, I think that you missed the point of what I was saying. I find it strange that the Data Protection Act protects restricted access data in one sense, ie direct online from Scotland's People, but the same restricted access data is available from the same source, Scotland's People, through another source, Scotland's local council registrars offices. Anyone can access this information.
One further point, since you mentioned Africa, some bad news, there are Africans living here in Scotland, some of whom are probably related to "your ones" back in the darkest continent.
I really do not see where the recent Scottish etc "restricted access information" information is kept, or would be kept in Nairobi etc.
After all, it's not our dead ancestors that are being scammed, it's us, the living.

Regards


Malky

[mofid42]

I'm afraid these days you don't have to take out an expensive sub to a genealogy site...they offer free 14 day trials during which time anyone can use them them rip off the information on other peoples trees....and I know exactly what that feels like as its happened to me.

I am not ashamed to say I cried my eyes out when someone with a tree on a different website to the one I use got a member of their family to take advantage of a free trial with the website on which I have my tree to 'steal' copies of every document, certificate, photo and story for five generations of one family and their connections.

Normally I am quite happy to share with those that contact me but this person ignored all four of the messages I sent to them politely asking to talk to them and hopefully share information....instead at the end of the trial they simply cancelled their membership and merrily went on their way.

I was so upset as that tree had taken me six years of hard slog and expence...copies of the certificates alone amounted to more than £300. Call me niave if you like for putting them on my tree in the first place but it was my tree, I did all the work to make it what it was so surely I should be able to illustrate it in anyway I choose. I just couldn't believe the ignorance of this person, surely if they 'needed' my info so badly then we must be connected so why not swap and share?

Consequently all my trees are now private and no one gets an invite to view until I am totally satisfied they are genuine honest researchers.

[flipflops]

Normally I am quite happy to share with those that contact me but this person ignored all four of the messages I sent to them politely asking to talk to them and hopefully share information....instead at the end of the trial they simply cancelled their membership and merrily went on their way.

So sorry that you had such an upsetting experience
Simply, what happened to you was a form of piracy
For what real purpose I simply can't imagine - maybe it's one of those scavenger hunt thingies

[mofid42]

Thanks Flipflops

I was furious as well as upset.....without rambling on about all the details I am pretty sure that what they did was deliberate and planned....sad because its left me not trusting anyone now.

I can understand it if people help themselves to stuff thats on an open  website that the whole world can view but being on a genealogy website that you need a sub to use I thought my tree would be safe from such unscrupulous people....obviously not

Had to put it all down to experience and to realise with sadness that not every family history researcher has the same honest scruples as I do.....bet the where the sort who used to cheat at school!!!

[Nick29]

I'm afraid these days you don't have to take out an expensive sub to a genealogy site...they offer free 14 day trials during which time anyone can use them them rip off the information on other peoples trees....and I know exactly what that feels like as its happened to me.

True, but most 'free trials' need a credit or debit card to enable them (you cancel after 14 days and they don't charge the card) but the card is still verified.  Doing this is a very cheap way of getting a creditworthyness test 

[Sloe Gin]

I am not ashamed to say I cried my eyes out when someone with a tree on a different website to the one I use got a member of their family to take advantage of a free trial with the website on which I have my tree to 'steal' copies of every document, certificate, photo and story for five generations of one family and their connections. ....

I was so upset as that tree had taken me six years of hard slog and expence...copies of the certificates alone amounted to more than £300. Call me niave if you like for putting them on my tree in the first place but it was my tree, I did all the work to make it what it was so surely I should be able to illustrate it in anyway I choose. I just couldn't believe the ignorance of this person, surely if they 'needed' my info so badly then we must be connected so why not swap and share?

I can understand being upset if real documents, photographs etc were physically stolen from you, but you haven't actually lost anything, have you?  You still have all those things.  Imagine how much worse it would be if you lost them in, say, a house fire.