Elizabeth Thompson

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi again...

If you don't like Plan A then here's some guesswork. Call it Plan B  :-)

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BDM NZ Births -
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

1872/84   - THOMPSON, Elizabeth - mother: Elizabeth  father: James
1872/11119 - THOMPSON, Elizabeth

Both births registered on 16 April 1872 so most likely a duplicate record.

BDM NZ Births fiche
1872/629 - THOMPSON, Elizabeth - Birth registered in Napier (a few miles north of Clive)

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BDM NZ Deaths + NZSG Burial Locator CD

1947/21363 - GILMOUR, Elizabeth - d.o.d 19 May 1947 aged 75 years which gives a birth year of 1872

Buried at Taradale Cemetery.

Burial record reference no.847

1949/22562 - GILMOUR, Joseph - d.o.d 15 May 1949 aged 80 years

Buried at Taradale Cemetery.

Burial record reference no.847


Headstone inscription reads...

Elizabeth Gilmour died 19 May 1947 aged 75 years
Joseph Gilmour husband of above died 15 May 1949

Source: NZSG Cemetery Fiche - Taradale F02:46

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Hastings District Council cemetery website

http://www.hdc.govt.nz/cem/cemetery_home.html

James THOMPSON - date of death/burial 14 March 1925

Possibly father of Elizabeth THOMPSON b.1872

Cemetery website record shows his previous residence as Mangateretere, which is basically an over-sized paddock next door to Clive.

Headstone mentions Robert (BDM NZ Births 1879/15799) and Louisa (BDM NZ Births 1883/11536), presumably siblings of Elizabeth.

BDM NZ Births fiche
1879/3585 - THOMPSON, Robert - Birth registered in Napier

BDM NZ Births fiche
1883/2654 - THOMPSON, Louisa  - Birth registered in Napier


Also mentions Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON, wife of James. Presumably mother of Elizabeth, Robert and Louisa except for the fact that the only marriage for a James THOMPSON to an Elizabeth Taylor ? happened on 6 April 1901. But her previous residence is also given as Mangateretere.

BDM NZ Marriages
1901/3438 - Bride: Elizabeth Taylor THOMAS - Groom: James THOMPSON

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This is all guesswork. The easiest way to prove/disprove it is to spend money :-)

Purchase printouts from BDM NZ at NZ$20.40 each in this order...

BDM NZ Marriages
1900/4691 - Bride: Elizabeth THOMPSON - Groom: Joseph GILMOUR (which will give names of parents)

BDM NZ Deaths -
1947/21363 - GILMOUR, Elizabeth (which should have the same names of parents)

BDM NZ Births -
1872/84   - THOMPSON, Elizabeth - mother: Elizabeth  father: James (which won't have much information as it's pre-1875 but it might mention mother's maiden name)

BDM NZ Births -
1883/11536 - THOMPSON, Louisa - mother: Elizabeth  father: James (which will mention mother's maiden name as it's post-1875)

If mother's maiden name is THOMAS then purchase...

BDM NZ Marriages
1901/3438 - Bride: Elizabeth Taylor THOMAS - Groom: James THOMPSON (which will take you back one generation earlier by mentioning the names of the bride and grooms parents i.e the grandparents of Elizabeth GILMOUR formerly THOMPSON. But as I mentioned earlier I'm not too sure about this marriage)


Regards
Beg

[Lucy2]

But its Elizabeth Thompson's family I don't know much about.    But I have a call into home to see if my Grandma knowns more.

[Some of following touches on comments already made by Beg. ]   

Hi nmg1

Looking at the James THOMPSON (d. 1925) and Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON (d. 1934) burial records and headstone  ... coupled with the 1901 marriage record of persons of same names, at first suggested the possibility that this may have been a 2nd marriage for James ?

However, "Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON, domestic duties" is to be found residing in Clive, as early as 1896.
["James THOMPSON, manager" and "Elizabeth THOMPSON, dressmaker" are also at Clive, in same year. ]

As "chrisane's" finds show, Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON appears on the 1900 H/Bay roll (before marriage date), but by 1911 (- and I'm assuming this is the same lady residing with James THOMPSON at Clive), she then becomes "Elizabeth THOMPSON, married".   [There are no further electoral listings for an "Elizabeth Taylor THOMPSON.  ?? ]

It is possible then, that the "Elizabeth" who has children (Robert, Louisa, Elizabeth) with James THOMPSON, is in fact "Elizabeth Taylor THOMAS" ... and that the parents' union, wasn't actually formalised until 1901 ?

[[Maybe your Gran has been able by now, to provide further info on the GILMOUR-THOMPSON marriage ?   But if not, then purchasing a copy of this marriage record, would be the best starting point, particularly as it contains details supplied by the bride and groom themselves.   Be sure to select a "printout" version (rather than certificate), as this gives maximum available information.]]

 
  ~  Lu

[rbarkman]

Well spotted, Lucy2 - these two confused me greatly when I was researching them, because their death records claim that they were married when James was 31 and Bessie was 20, which would make it about 1872.  I searched for the marriage in vain, until I widened the dates and discovered the 1901 marriage.  It seems they did not marry until well after their children were born - then they snuck off & did it in Lyttleton, well away from the family back in Hawkes Bay.

They are my great-great grandparents.  James was born in Scotland in about 1840, based on his age (85) at death on 12 Mar 1925.  His parents were James & Margaret Thompson - all of this info comes from the death cert.  Unfortunately, with such a common Scots name, I have not yet had any success locating further info.  According to family tradition, he was brought to NZ as a sort of apprentice to a Mr. Sydney Johnston, who owned Oruawharo Station in Hawkes Bay.  James eventually became the farm manager, before acquiring his own farms, owning one in Clive, one in Pakawai and one in Mangateretere, 4 miles from Hastings.  He also owned a house in Duart Road, Havelock North.

Elizabeth 'Bessie' Taylor Thomas was born 25 Nov 1853 in Bosorne, St Just, Cornwall, to Nicholas and Johanna Thomas (nee Taylor).  She came to NZ in about 1867.  After getting together with James in about 1872, they had 13 kids: Elizabeth (1872), James (1873), Margaret (1875) William (1876), Mary (1878), Robert (1879), Thomas (1881), Louisa (1883), David (1885), Samuel (1886), Charles (1888), Isabella (1890) and George (1893).  Mary was my great-grandmother.

I have some history on Bessie's family, all of which comes from an Ancestry.co.uk tree which seems to have disappeared.  So I can't really give you any provenance.  This is how it looks:

                               William Thomas]
                                                     ?]-------William Thomas 1777]
                                                                                                  ]- Nicholas Thomas 1819]
                  Henry Neckerwise 1751]- Margaret Neckerwise 1773]                                     ]
                                      Margaret ?]                                                                                ]
                                                                                                                                        ]
     William Taylor]- William Taylor 1754]                                                                            ]
Elizabeth Boyens]                                 ]------William Taylor 1789]                                     ]
                                      Sarah Roberts]                                      ]--- Johanna Taylor 1820]
                                                                               Ann Thomas]

I have more detailed dates for baptisms, marriages, etc. if you want them - as I said, I can't vouch for the accuracy because I didn't do the research myself.

[nmg1]

Hi rbarkman

Thanks for that info that you posted. 

Elizabeth and James were my ggg grandparents.  I had come to abit of a dead end so your info has been great.

Thanks

nmg1 

[Heather Bear]

Having just joined this site to research my family I came upon all this info re Elizabeth Thompson (nee Taylor) who was my great grandmother. I had very little information about the Thompson family other than my father (James Henry) was the 6th child of Elizabeth and James Thompson's eldest daughter Elizabeth Gilmour. I have visited the family plot at Havelock North where several of the family are buried, but did not realise Elizabeth and James had so many children. Great to get all this info from this site, thanks.

[nmg1]

Hi rbarkman

I have just got James and Elizabeth's marriage certificate and it says James was born in  country Donegal Ireland. Father James Thompson, mother Margaret Knox (looks like).  Does this mean anything to you.

nmg1

[rbarkman]

Hi rbarkman

I have just got James and Elizabeth's marriage certificate and it says James was born in  country Donegal Ireland. Father James Thompson, mother Margaret Knox (looks like).  Does this mean anything to you.

nmg1

Eh?      I have a copy of his death cert and it says "Where born: Scotland", father James, mother Margaret.  Of course, once someone is dead, you only have the recollections of others to go into the death cert, so it's less likely to be accurate than a marriage record.

Full details on Death Cert:
When & Where Died:  12 March 1925, Mangateretere, Hawkes Bay
Name & Occupation: James Thompson, Sheepfarmer
Age: 85 Years
Cause: Syncope Cardiac Disease, 2 years; Senile Decay
Parents: James Thompson, farmer; Margaret Thompson, not known
Where & When Buried: 14 March 1925, Havelock North (Rev. K E Maclean, Anglican)
Where Born, Time in NZ: Scotland, 23; 62 years  ['23' is his calculated age at immigration]
Where & at What Age Married: Lyttleton, 31  [this is not true - he was 61]
Wife, Age if Living: Elizabeth Taylor Thomas, 75
Age of Living Issue: Male: 51, 48, 43, 40, 38, 36, 32;  Female: 52, 50, 41, 34
Informant: Undertaker

I've tried doing a search for Irish records on Ancestry, but there's no hits; unfortunately, Irish records are pretty poor.  Could you post all the details from the marriage cert?

[rbarkman]

I also tried following up the Sidney Johnston link, to see if Mr. J came from Scotland or Ireland and might therefore have a connection to either place - unfortunately, he was born in Wellington.  It may be that Sidney met James in Wellington after the latter's arrival in NZ.

[nmg1]

Marriage details

James Thompson, 61 Farmer Bachelor, Birthplace Country Donegal Ireland, Residence Lylletton, Usual Clive, Father James Thompson Farmer, mother Margaret Thompson (Knox)

Elizabeth Taylor Thomas 47 Spinster, Birthplace (can not read the name of the town) Cornwall, Residence Lylletton, Usual Clive, Father Nicholas Thomas, mother Johanna Thomas (Taylor).

In the presence of (this is also very hard to read) E. H. Jacks and Elizabeth M. M.  ?

Hope that helps.