Abraham Varley

[Sheila2748]

I am looking for info on my great great grandfather Abraham Varley who i think was born in Keighley Yorks about 1834. He married Elizabeth Battersby in Manchester about 1857. They had five children all born in Liverpool and they were Thomas, Rachel, Sarah Ellen, Richard and William ( william is my great grandfather ). I have found them on the cenus but on the 1881 cenus his wife and family are on it but not him. I know he was not dead because in 1886 he is on his daughter Sarah Ellen marriage cert to William Robinson . I found a death in 1891 in Burnley but not sure it was him. On the 1871 cenus he was living at 11 Thomas Street, Salford and his occupation was a Labourer. So any help would be appreciated. Thank you.  Sheila

[rosie99]

Hi

Does the 1881 census state that Elizabeth was a widow ?  1881 and 1891 census both show married but no Abraham with her - 1901 she is a widow.

The fact that Sarah Ellen's marriage certificate does not say her father was deceased could be that she was asked for his name and occupation but not whether he was still alive.

Did he witness the marriage ??

Rosie

[Sheila2748]

Hi thank you for replying, but no he did not sign the marriage cert. because he was on it and it did not say deceased i took it that he was still alive but i can not find anything about him after the 1871 cenus.

[JenB]

and it did not say deceased i took it that he was still alive

I'm afraid this isn't necessarily a correct assumption. As rosie has said, if the question 'is he still alive' wasn't asked, or if the relevant information wasn't offered then nothing was put on the certificate.

The word 'deceased' didn't appear after my g-g-g grandfather's name on his son's marriage certificate, and I therefore assumed he was still alive. In fact I discovered later that he had been dead for over 20 years.

You will find that there have ben a lot of threads on Rootschat on this subject.

[Radcliff]

Non of his children give the information of father deceased on their marriage records
the only difference being Richard Aspinal Varley give his fathers occupation as marble mason,not labourer like his sisters and brother,

[Latchford52]

Regarding Abraham VARLEY himself ..... I think that he could be my great-grandmother's brother .  She was Grace VARLEY who married in 1846 my great-grandfather in Ashton-under-Lyne although I am pretty certain that she was living in Salford at the time , probably at 6 Coronation Street with parents Thomas and Sarah .  Do you know the maiden name of Sarah VARLEY ?
Mike

[Sheila2748]

Hi Mike, I have Sarah Varley maiden name as Hollough, born 1799-1876. Abraham Varley did have a sister called Grace,I found her on the 1841 census living at 6 Coronation St, Salford but I have not found much about her after that.  Sheila

[Latchford52]

Sheila ,
I think that Abraham was baptised at St Michael and All Angels Church , Haworth .  On the 1871 census for 11 Thomas Street , Salford his birthplace is given as Keighley ... so that would seem to suggest that we have the "right"/same man .  He is recorded living with his wife Elizabeth and five children among whom is William - your great-grandfather ?
Do you have the details (date , place) for the marriage of his parents - Thomas VARLEY and Sarah [whose maiden surname you give as HOLLOUGH] ?  And what information do you have about Sarah's death in 1876 ?  When did Thomas die ?
Grace VARLEY (my great-grandmother) who I think is Abraham's sister was married 1846 but is wrongly recorded as "Grace BARLOW" .  Apart from her name and that of the groom (my great-grandfather Michael) the marriage certificate is completely blank .  Attached to it is the message "No further details as the married couple had left the church" !  Consequently I have never been able to unearth the names of Grace's parents ; and am pleased to see that you/we may have found the answer . 
Mike

[Latchford52]

Hello , Sheila again ......
Thank you for your two recent and very informative emails .  I am going to try to answer the points you raise as well as I can .
(1) You say that Abraham's mother (Sarah VARLEY) had the surname HOLLOUGH and that you found the marriage to Thomas VARLEY registered in Leeds in 1831 .  On the 1841 census , however , the details for the VARLEY family include the information that the eldest child was John aged 15 which suggests a birth year of 1825 or 1826 .  The next eldest child is Grace (probably my great-grandmother - Grace WROE nee VARLEY) aged 13 , suggesting a birth year of 1827/1828 .  When she died in February 1900 her age was given as 73 which would suggest a birth year of 1826 or 1827 .  Taking into account  the social morals in the early nineteenth century I think it would be unlikely that Thomas and Sarah would have married after the birth of the first child (assuming John to be the eldest) let alone after the birth of both John and Grace .
(2) If the argument above holds true that the  1831 marriage may not be the one we are trying to find ..... then what do you think about the following suggested marriage between Thomas and Sarah nee STONES held at Heptonstall (Hebden Bridge) on 25 December 1823 ? 
(3) Do you happen to have a copy of the birth certificate for your great-grandfather William who was born 1843 ?  Does this not give the maiden surname of Sarah ?  This would prove things one wary or the other ..... and would mercifully shut me up !
(4) I believe that Abraham VARLEY was born 1833 and baptised at St Michael and All Angels , Haworth in 1834 .  On the 1871 census (for 11 Thomas Street , Salford) Abraham [wrongly recorded as "Abram"] is recorded as being born "Keighley" .  This would tie in with the baptism details as Haworth and Keighley are about 3 miles apart .
(5)You mentioned earlier that your grandmother Ethel HALL nee VARLEY married twice ; and that her daughter - maiden name also Ethel HALL - is a half-sister to your Dad .  I am interested to learn a bit more ... but if this is probing into personal family matters , then please ignore this question .
(6) Are you enjoying living in the south-west ?  We live in Somerset (although I was born in Warrington) and we are very happy about our choice .
I shall look forward to hearing from you (again) very soon .
Mike