DNA Testing - Why Not

[flipflops]

I hope you have also send your raw data (zipped) to GEDMatch so you expand your base to include both FTDNA and 23andMe customers.

No - I looked at it and put it in the 'too difficult box ' until after Christmas

If you point out they have a great grandfather living 118 years and they might want to double check it, they are as likely to quit communicating with you as thank you.

LOL

[Ruskie]

Thank you Nickgc and Supermoussi for the explanations - that was very helpful. I think it is becoming clearer at last.  

I can see a DNA test being very useful to trace my paternal family. Although I know a little of their recent history, beyond that I will never be able to find out more.

If I were to purchase a test for my father in order to find out more about both of his parents ancestries (and find matches to any descendants), which would be the best test for this?

At this point I am not interested in their origins 100,000 years ago, but more like 100 or 200 or 300 or 400 plus years ago. If spending more on an "all the bells and whistles" test would give more useful results, then I would consider doing so.

Also, when taking the test, are you required to give family details or say what you are looking to discover? The reason I ask is that, as I mentioned previously, with a distinctive name whose origins are obvious, I would rather not give any clues ( ), and would even prefer to have the test done without using this surname. Would I still be able to add the real surname to the DNA companies contact database if I decided I would like to be contactable?

I will go back and re read the thread to see what has been recommended, but as I am still a bit confused by it all, I thought that if I mentioned what I would like from a test, one of you might have a recommendation.

Lastly, I suppose that these tests are going to improve, give more accurate results, and eventually more matches? If someone took the test today would they need to retest in X amount of years time (whenever the tests have improved) or would their results be reinterpreted? I take it that all samples are destroyed after testing and the results are sent out?

Thank you everyone.

[Nick29]

There are three types of test......

1. Y-DNA - the Y-chromosome is only passed in the paternal line, so it won't find a match in your mother's ancestry.

2. Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) - is passed via the female line and used to trace maternal lineage.

3. Autosomal DNA - as well as a pair of Y or X chromosomes - each person also carries 22 pairs of autosomes.  These are gender-independent, and it is claimed that short-duration DNA tracing (within 5 or 6 generations) can be done from both male and female lines.  FTDNA calls the autosomal test the 'Family Finder' test.

It's almost impossible to get a DNA test without divulging your name - how are you going to pay for it and have it delivered ?  And I'm not sure why you would want to ?  The whole point of a DNA test is to find people with the same or similar DNA - how are you going to do this without having a database with people's names on it ?   With FTDNA, you can opt out of having your name on the database if you wish.

The accuracy of the results is not a problem.  You can already pay for 67-marker DNA tests.  What's lacking and is hoped to be improved upon is the number of people in the database.  It's a bit like fingerprints - you could employ someone who is a master at finding fingerprint matches, but if you only have 10,000 fingerprint samples, then you're still very unlikely to get any matches with a random sample taken in a pub somewhere.  With DNA, it's slightly less complicated, because they are looking for DNA sequences, not a match in the whole sample.

DNA samples, being biological, will decay with time, but your DNA profile is stored numerically, so it can't decay - most labs will destroy the samples, but you should clarify this with them if it bothers you.  You might need to take another test if (say) you originally paid for a 37-marker test, and you later wanted a 67-marker test.  You have to bear in mind that the DNA profiling that these labs do is not as sensitive or as detailed as the DNA testing done in a crime lab, so it's quite important to make sure you harvest a good number of cells when you do a swab of the inside of your cheeks, because the bigger the sample, the quicker it is to process.

With FTDNA, in addition to sending in your samples, it's also a good idea to send in your ancestry data, and FTDNA can accept this in the form of a GEDCOM file.  This is quite important, because if you are matched with another person on the database, you will of course want to know who your common ancestor was.  When you first register, you can enter just your 'earliest ancestor' on both your paternal and maternal side, and add to it when you want to.  On the FTDNA site, you have your own account pages, and on one page there is a map, where you can show people with the same DNA profiles, and people with the same surnames (if you have joined a name-study group).

[Ruskie]

Nick. Many thanks for your excellent and detailed reply. I will digest the information and get back to you later if I may (probably with some more questions I'm afraid).

[Ruskie]

Hi Nick.

Re not revealing the surname - This may defeat the object of the test, or maybe I'm overly cynical, but I would just be interested to know what they would come up with without knowing the surname, because the surname makes the origin of the family very obvious. They must be able do the test without knowing the surname/s and it's origin? (It must also happen with testing women who have taken their husband's name.) I would not want the surname to influence their results, and I see it maybe as a way to test the accuracy I suppose. I would be able to get the test ordered and paid for by someone else and I would want the surname on the database after the test.

I did a bit of reading earlier today and think I would probably want the most comprehensive test just to make sure that I cover all bases while I'm at it, however the costs were very high on the site I looked at. At the very least I would want the 'family finder' plus Y DNA, as the paternal line is the one we know the least about. My father is getting on a bit, so there may not be an opportunity to take further tests too far into the future.

I expect that there will be no matches for my surname. There are only 6 living males in the world with this surname and they're all my rellies. There is the additional complication of the surname being anglicised, and the original spelling being in another language and alphabet. Does anyone know how this would work? On the database would 'foreign' surnames appear in their original language as well as in 'English'?

Thanks again.

[Redroger]

Ruskie, Lack of a surname won't defeat the object of the test! I tested under my own (uncommon) surname, and so far haven't had a confirmed match with it, the only confirmed match being with a man whose ancestors were in the same area as mine at the same time!

Regarding the transition of the surname from one alphabet to another, all this can do is to provide a series of other possible transliterations, a recent example being the attempted freezing of the Gadaffi family bank accounts. There were over 100 possibilities, but a small sample is Gadaffi, Qadaffi, Kadaffi, etc.etc. It depends largely on which Latin consonant is used to provide the appropriate sound in the language the word is being translated into.

No doubt, there is an expert in this subject somewhere on Rootschat.

[Nick29]

Ruskie, sorry, but I think you are being overly cynical.  You have also seemed to overlook that surname studies are an integral part of DNA genealogy.  I'm lucky, because my (very common) surname has a huge name study group on FTDNA.  Now my surname (Martin) is of Norman origin, so if I was to hazard a guess, I'd say that there would be a huge number of matches in France, where it is the most common surname.  So when I looked at the Y-DNA distribution map for the name, I was quite surprised to find more people on the map in England than there was in France, and a whole lot more in America.

Of course, this really only shows where the highest number of DNA tests have been performed.  Surname tests are really also very good at screening out illegitimate ancestors, which may be a vital part of research, but they can also be quite confusing to those new to the technology.  FTDNA will also show a map giving the locations of all Y-DNA close matches, irrespective of surname.

I think you should bear in mind that FTDNA is based in the land where legal actions are commonplace, so I don't think anyone offering DNA tests would want to cheat, and expose themselves to legal action from their customers.  

[nickgc]

Ruskie,

You can see what Y DNA results look like by going to FTDNA and looking at their "project" pages.  Yes, various spellings of names often show up, but not in the alphabet of the original country as far as I have seen.  Since you are "Ruskie", I presume you might be implying Cyrillic.

I hope this link works as an example.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Idrissi%20tribes/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

The only Russian one I found does not have the results open to casual viewers (a silly decision in my opinion).

You can view any number of these (some projects are haplogroup related, e.g. I belong to the I1 project as well as a couple of surname projects).

I do suggest strongly that you get minimum 37 markers tested for Y, and 67 or more if you can afford it.  In your case, with few known names in paternal ancestry it might be necessary.
FTDNA's project sites are pretty easy to navigate.  Scan throught their alpha lists, select on, click on link to project page if they have one.  Then click button at top of page for Y-DNA Results and "colorized" version if available.

Nick


Nick

[Ruskie]

Thank you very much Roger, Nick and Nick. I am very grateful for the help and advice.

PS. Yes, I am talking about Cyrillic  . And yes I am cynical, probably wrongly so in this case. 
PPS. Your link did work nickgc, and I'm pretty certain I'd never be able to understand anything as complicated as that.