Hi All
The NZ BDM’s allows a search for birth’s from 1840 onwards, so any children born to Herriot/Harriot and George Glover, I would have thought should appear if they were registered, yet none seem to appear. Seems the NZ BDM’s are as frustrating to search as our own.
I’m curious as to why, if Thomas George Tandy is Bertha’s son; his birth is in the registers and not that of a daughter, if Mary Ann is a potential daughter. I’ve ordered both this birth certificate and the NZ marriage certificate of Bertha and Thomas Tandy – so hang on to your hats! No idea how long they will take to arrive though.
It’s quite feasible as majm suggests that Herriot/Harriot and George looked after the children when they returned to Australia, when Bertha married Stephen King.
However, if we look at Bertha having her daughter between the years of 1848-1851 (as a guide – in 1848 Bertha would have been 15 years old) – this would indicate that Mary Ann was very young when she married in 1859?? Not sure about this.
The article majm referred to from the Evening Post also referred to Mary Ann as the ‘half caste daughter of a Swede named Thomas Tandy’. A different Thomas Tandy perhaps? Or maybe the same Thomas Tandy but a different mother perhaps? And I suspect this is where that earlier marriage to Maria Manaha might come in. I suspect this might be Mary Ann’s mother rather than Bertha?
Then there is the issue of what happened to Thomas George Tandy and where he went? The Thomas Tandy recorded as dying in 1862 – if this is the same Thomas Tandy – why would he be recorded as an infant? He would have been 12 years old in 1862. A different Thomas Tandy perhaps? George and Harriot were known to be in Morpeth around this time.
If that is the entire Glover family returning in August 1852 that would terrific (interesting it says 9 children because by 1855 they have 6 children – accounting for young Theo’s death of course), however, I have no idea who the children of George and Harriot all are as I don’t seem to be able to find out there names. Emily I know due the details of the court case being recorded. Emma – majm has found and that was a terrific find. And Theophilus was another great find too – well done. The NSW BDM doesn’t record the parent’s names sadly for Theo's death.
The Emma Jane Glover born 1842 who married Alexander John Kemp Picard (born in Scotland) is the daughter of George Glover and Harriet Grace Champion. She had 4 sons and 5 daughters with him. This is the Emma majma has found.
Re: the question, how sure am I that it was George, (Bertha) - correction Amelia - and 2 children on board the Augusta Jessie? I could pose exactly the same question? How sure are we that it was George, Harriot and children on board the Magnet going to New Zealand? It’s known that shipping records from back in those times sometimes recorded only the name of the husband, and sometimes then the name of the wife as Mrs ?? and then only the number children travelling (sometimes listed a 1 M and/or 1 F etc, or just one son or one daughter etc). The passenger list for the Magnet only records – Sydney (12 March 1840) to Waikouaiti under Captain Bruce – Glover Mr G – Glover family.
The first regular shipload of settler to Otago, sent by Johnny Jones to form a settlement at Waikouaiti. (I have no idea who Johhny Jones was).
Just as a side not - interestingly it also lists amongst the passengers – Chiefs (5) New Zealanders and ‘A Whaling Gang’.
The source is ‘The Commercial Journal dated 14 March 1840’, however, the family is listed elsewhere specifying exactly how many children there were (and I think the list majm provided had them listed as George Glover, wife, son and daughter).
I can be as sure as I am only based on being told of the contents of treasured family documents being held very close to someone’s heart that they are not going to part with for neither love nor money.
However, back to the topic at hand – I wait with baited breath for the certificates from New Zealand, particularly for the marriage certificate of one Thomas Tandy and Bertha Gorham. Although I'm most curious as to why (if this is her) she would havr married under the name of Gorham, when both she and her brother George had taken the Glover name when her parents married. Given civil registration didn't commence in the UK until 1837 ordering these birth certificates isn't going to be possible, so a friendly bit of family 'coercement' might be in order.
Cheers
Caryn
