Elizabeth Johnson - how do I proceed?

[GailB]

My 2x great grandmother Elizabeth Johnson married John Thomas Armitage on 22 October 1866 at Christ Church, Claughton, Cheshire. Both were of “full age” and John Thomas Armitage was a fisherman, son of Joseph Armitage also a fisherman. Elizabeth was a spinster, daughter of James Johnson a builder. The witnesses were James and Louisa Passmore and I have found no family connection with the Passmores and have traced them throughout the Census and they appear to have been school teachers.

I have only found Elizabeth on the 1871 (Tranmere) and 1881 (Little Meols) Census after her marriage and the details indicate that she was born about 1845 in Everton. To make matters worse I cannot find a death for her but John married again in 1885 to widow Helen Easton Rattray, her father being Alexander Cumming.

I cannot find any census entries in 1861 or 1851 for Elizabeth in Everton or Liverpool that would seem to fit. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can knock this brick wall down without ordering dozens of birth certificates in the hope I may find the right Elizabeth Johnson?

Any help greatly appreciated
Gail

[Pels.]

Hi Gail,

Have a look at this and see what you think :

Baptism - Parish Church of St Peter, Liverpool
January 10th 1843

Elizabeth, daughter of James and Mary Johnson.
Abode : Lansdowne Place, Everton
Occupation of Father - StoneMason

Kind regards,

Pels.

[BashLad]

There is an entry on lanopc for -

Baptised 10 January 1843 at St Peter, Liverpool.
of Elizabeth Johnson of James Johnson & Mary
Living at Lansdown Place, Everton
Occupation- Stone Mason

Seems likely. Gives a clue which birth certificate you need if you still want it- ie. the one dated Q4 1842 in west derby.

(haha, beaten to it!)

[GailB]

Thanks Pels and Bashlad

I think I may have seen that baptism before but I discounted it because it said James was a stonemason and not a builder. I may be wrong but I would have thought that if Elizabeth’s father was a stonemason it would have said so on her marriage certificate, although I guess a stonemason is a builder.

This morning I found other baptisms for the same parents, living in Lansdowne Place:

James Johnson, baptised on 10 January 1838 son of James & Mary, stonemason
William Williams Johnson, baptised 11 November 1839, son of James & Mary, stonemason
Ellen Johnson, baptised 27 March 1845, daughter of James & Mary, stonemason

I believe that this is the above family in 1841 before Elizabeth and Ellen were born:

HO107 Piece 519 Book 3 Enumeration District 6 Folio 22 Page 11

Lansdowne Place

James Johnson 25 (29 was crossed out) Stonemason, Y
Mary, 25 (26 was crossed out), Y
James, 3, Y
William, 2, Y
Ann Neals, 15, FS, I

Not sure if this is them in 1851 as Mary’s age is wrong:

HO107 / 2190 / 8 / 8

38 Ellison Street, Everton

Mary Johnson, Head, widow, 30, Everton
Ellen, Daughter, 6, Everton
Mary, Daughter, 4, Everton
Richard, Son, 12m, Everton
Ann Beasly, Serv, U, 25, Northwich

I somehow don’t think it is the same the only thing that is right is Ellen’s age.

It also doesn’t help explaining where Elizabeth was in 1851 and 1861

I won’t completely discount the baptism but I’m not sure enough to order a birth certificate based on that and the only extra information would be Elizabeth’s date of birth and Mary’s maiden name any way.

On double checking Elizabeth as Armitage in 1871 and 1881 her age is not consistent which I thought it was in 1871 she is 24 and in 1881 she is 36.

This may have to stay in the too hard basket still.

Thanks again
Gail

[littlewren]

Hi

I think you can link Elizabeth Johnson, to a Williams family through her mother Mary.
(You already know she had a brother William Williams Johnson.)
I have not copied all the info.

In 1851 she is in Everton with her brother.
30 Clarence Grove.
William Williams age 66 widow retired cowkeeper born Bangor
Edward Williams 33 carver and guilder born Everton
Joseph Askew 30 son in law optician
Ellen Askew 32
James Johnson 14 grandson
Elizabeth Johnson 8 grandaughter
Winifred Davies 26 servant

and in 1861 she is a domestic servant to Mary Frazer and family Spencer st. Everton
she is mistranscribed as Elizabeth Johnston age 18.

This could suggest that Elizabeths mother was Mary Williams - however I have been unable to track down a marriage between James Johnson and Mary Williams. And also I have been unable to track down any baptism for Mary Williams.

[littlewren]

But there is a second link to the family.
The family you have found in 1851 in Everton has daughter Mary aged 4 born Everton.
In 1861 she is living at

Everton 19 St George St
Ellen Askew 40 widow born Liverpool
Mary Johnson 14 niece born Liverpool
+ two boarders (unrelated)

Ellen Williams married Joseph Askew at Walton St Mary in 1851, details on the brilliant Lanc opc site.

The Williams family in 1841
Everton, Walton on the Hill
looks like Orient Street

William Williams 55  might be farmer?
Elizabeth Williams 60
Edward Williams 20 carver and gilder
Ellen Williams 20
Jane Williams 15
and others

Details of some of the Williams can be found on Lancs opc site under St. Georges Everton.

burials of Jane Williams age 20 of Orient street, 6 Dec 1842
Elizabeth Williams age 66 of Everton, 18 sep 1845
William Williams age 74 of Everton, 27 Aug 1858
Ellen Askew age 42 of West Derby 27 Jan 1866

You will also find info on the baptisms of Edward, Ellen, Jane and a Richard which will also tell you of the occupation of William Williams.

And also in the baptisms at St. Georges you can find James Johnson and William Williams Johnson who were also baptised at St. Peter, details you already have.

I have not checked all the William and Johnson entries.

[littlewren]

And lastly perhaps an even greater mystery :

from the Liverpool Mercury etc. Friday Dec 8 1848
Sept 17, at Medellin, New-Granada, in his 37th year James, eldest son of the late Mr. James Johnson, mason and builder, Everton.

Was this Elizabeth's father? If so he was born about 1811.

Happy hunting.

Little wren.

[GailB]

Wow thanks Littlewren, I'd given up on this again but Clarence Grove is very interesting. Oh and whoo hooo perhaps another Williams line .... fantastic   

My 3x great grandmother Margaret Brumfitt (nee Morris) died at 29 Clarence Grove on 23 February 1882. It appears she may have separated from her husband and was living with her son, Charles (2x great grand uncle) who moved there some time between 1871 and 1881.

It all looks very interesting and I will investigate further as it all sounds very promising. Can't thank you enough.

Gail

[GailB]

After careful consideration, due to lack of any other likely candidates, I have decided to accept that the baptism on 10 January 1843 at St Peter Liverpool for Elizabeth Johnson daughter of James and Mary Johnson is my Elizabeth. Therefore, the above Johnson and Williams families are mine.

But of course, now I'm so curious as to what on earth James was doing in South America in 1848 LOL 

Gail