William Watts born c1872 Tredegar

[Myfanwy 65]

I would really appreciate some help with this !!!!!!!!!!

1911 census   William Watts  age 39 ( birth c 1872 )Tredegar mon living 12 Plummers Row Married 17 years marriage  9th july 1894 got cert
Fathers name on cert Henry Watts coal miner


1901 census  William Watts age 30 birth 1871 living 8 Plummers row


1891 census William Watts age 18 ( c1873 ) living Aberdare mon with William & Margaretta Morgan

I think this is him as a Margaret Morgan was a witness at wedding in 1894

All above census are definitely him as proved by the children including my Grandmother Charlotte Watts born 1900 I know all her sisters and brothers names are correct as well.

1881 census

This is where I get stuck the only family I can come up with on this census is that seems to fit is:-

James WILLIAMS
 Head     M     Male     30     Llanwenarth, Monmouth, England     Coal Miner     
 Ruth WILLIAMS
 Wife     M     Female     32     Trevethin, Monmouth, England          
 Ann WILLIAMS
 Daur          Female     14     Aberystruth, Monmouth, England     Scholar     
 Thomas WATTS
 Son          Male     11     Mynyddislwyn, Monmouth, England     Scholar     
 William H. WATTS
 Son          Male     9     Aberystruth, Monmouth, England     Scholar     
 Sarah WATTS
 Daur          Female     8     Aberystruth, Monmouth, England     Scholar     
 George WATTS
 Son          Male     7     Aberystruth, Monmouth, England     Scholar     
 Ada WATTS
 Daur          Female     5     Aberystruth, Monmouth, England     Scholar    
 
 Now back to 1901 census they had a visiting Williams  Family could be coincidence as not uncommon name in Wales
I checked with registry office and they confirmed that William < sarah and George all had same parents can’t find Thomas and didn’t confirm Ada

I then got this Williams birth cert
William Henry watts 12th June 1872 born West side Cwmtillery  sub dist Aberystruth dist Bedwellty  father William Watts  mother Ruth Watts formally FRANKS  fathers occ coal miner

Working on the assumption it was Ruth’s second marriage I searched for the marriage and drew a blank for  Ruth Franks and HENRY Watts which my William said was his fathers name.

I found marriage for James Williams & Ruth Franks in 1880 q4 Reg Pontyprdd
All in right area.

Next I looked for deaths  Between 1871-1881
William Watts found  age 40 Q4 Bedwellty 1879

And  Henry Watts  age 30 Q3  Newport 1879

Do I assume Ruth never married William and That as My William was so young when his father died that he got his name wrong or am |I missing something???

Now my problem is where do I go next !!!!!!!!!!!!

Many thanks for reading all this

[RCB]

Did you look at 1871 - Ruth Franks age 22 is a servant of a Jenkins family, but I think she may be their daughter in law, Ann Franks age 5, and young Thomas Franks are with her.  I think Ruth Thomas married John Jenkins 1865 Brecon.  And late in 1871 in Newport a William Watts married a Ruth Frances?  So easy for Frances to become Franks with the handwriting of the day. So she was a widow possibly for the second time when she married James Williams 1880.  Hope this leads you somewhere.  Fred

[Myfanwy 65]

Hi Fred, many thanks for your reply. I did not look at 1871 for a Ruth Franks I assumed maybe wrongly that she would have been Watts by then as she already had Thomas  and that Franks was her maiden name. This is definately a possibility. I shall look further.

I did find the marriage between William Watts and Ruth Frances and thought the same as you especially as she signed with a cross on Williams birth cert.

I still am not sure I have the right William Watts born 1872 ( my gt grandfather ) though as where does Henry Watts come into this as William said that was fathers name on his marriage cert !!!!

It is always a problem when children are between census' proving their parents, out of 4 gt grandparents I can't find two of them !!!!  Anybody want to swap families 

[RCB]

Hi - I recently had a look for a friends family and hardly one of them used the name they were registered with at birth.  William Henry was Henry William, and with a surname like Watkins I set off following the wrong family.  Some adopted middle names as first names, and some used first names when married that weren't official even though I believe they were supposed to produce birth certificates?  In census they had an initial for a middle name but they were registered with just one first name.  There are times when you have to make guesses and hope you later validate the information, and it is always good to have somebody else look because you can keep missing things.
My granfather Harry is listed as Mary, nobody seems to have questioned that he is marrying Emily in 1902, and my grandfathers sister seems to have given up on her birth name of Minnie and called herself Matilda when she married, I had to buy the certificate to prove it was her because the 1911 census wasn't out at the time. Sometimes it's just click click and there they are in every census, but not very often.

[Myfanwy 65]

Did you look at 1871 - Ruth Franks age 22 is a servant of a Jenkins family, but I think she may be their daughter in law, Ann Franks age 5, and young Thomas Franks are with her. I think Ruth Thomas married John Jenkins 1865 Brecon. And late in 1871 in Newport a William Watts married a Ruth Frances? So easy for Frances to become Franks with the handwriting of the day. So she was a widow possibly for the second time when she married James Williams 1880. Hope this leads you somewhere. Fred

I looked at the census and agree this could be her. I found a death for ann JENKINS age 7 in Bedwellty so that could account for her not being on the 1881 census.

Now I am confused as to where the marriage of Ruth THOMAS and JOHN Jenkins comes into this. Am I missing something ? 

I think my my 2xgt grandmother had a lot of children out of wedlock   
I really appreciate your help with this
Val                    

[RCB]

It is a lot of info to take in.  But when I saw Ruth Franks with children already I wondered if she had married before, in 1871 she is with a Jenkins family and it doesn't say daughter.  So I entered a search for a marriage on Freebmd in Monmouthshire.  Jenkins marrying a girl named Ruth and that marriage came up.  I didn't check for a death of John Jenkins?

[osprey]

Ruth Franks is enumerated as unmarried in 1871. Also, she married James as Franks, so it looks like she didn't marry Mr Watts. I'd say that Ruth would be more likely to get his name right when registering the births of the children.

Do you have the marriage cert for Ruth & James? That would confirm her maiden name. This is probably her birth reg

Ruth Franks march qtr 1849 Pontypool vol 26 pg 154

1861 Snatchwood, nr Abersychan RG9/4008 folio 27 pg 19
William Franks head widower 50 collier b. Somerset, Pensford
Ruth dau 13 b. Abersychan
Eliza dau 7 b. Abersychan
Charlotte dau 2 b. Abersychan

possible death for mother
Sarah Franks dec qtr 1860 Pontypool vol 11a pg 77

Her burial is transcribed here, address given as Snatchwood
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/trevethinprt.htm
Possible marriage for William & Sarah in 1834 as well

[Myfanwy 65]

Seems like my 2xgt grandmother was " a bit of a girl "    I will check out these possibilities and keep you informed of progress. 

Many Many thanks both of you for your efforts.  It always helps when someone else confirms your suspicions.

Watch this space as they say 

Val