Thankyou caroleW for the question. I have no idea of dates but estimating backwards it must have been before 1800. The TOWNSENDS all came from Norfolk from way back so I have tended to discount them and so I have always thought the BIRLEY name might be the one to follow but from 1796 they were in Derbyshire, so it must have been before then. Also and it may be a red hearing: there are places named BIRLEY(some different spellings) in Leicestershire and Rutland, parts of which were in Leicestershire at one time. My attempts at getting to the bottom of this have failed so far so I was hoping some Leicestershire historian might just remember a similar story.