collins 1851/1861 census look up please

[paulwaring]

just looked up the street they both lived in looks like they were in the work house in liverpool any idea where i would get the records for these

[chickadee2212]

Workhouse records can be found at Liverpool Record Office - which is situated at Liverpool Musuem for the time being

[Gibel]

1881 Brook St Whiston
John Collins H M 48 coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen 48 bn Upholland
Esther Ellen daur 19 bn Upholland
Charles son 10 bn Upholland
Mary Ann daur 8 bn Prescot

Gibel

PS I can't see them in the workhouse. I'm not sure what you mean.

[Gibel]

1871 Ormskirk Road Rainford
John J Collins H M 29 coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen wife 35? bn Upholland
Esther E daur 5 bn Upholland
Charles son 7 months bn Rainford

Gibel

[paulwaring]

Gibel

PS I can't see them in the workhouse. I'm not sure what you mean.
[/quote
 hi the street they lived in when they got married seems to be attached to the liverpool workhouse from the info i got off the internet no one can find them on the 1861 census

[Ladyhawk]

marriage 14 aug 1859 st martins in the fields
john collins - minor labourer bachelor of tenterden st liverpool

ellen grady minor spinster of tenterden st liverpool

grooms father william collins labourer   brides father andrew grady

john collins on the 1901 census 344 fleet lane parr aged 70 born much woolton
ellen collins was at same address aged 60 born up holland

1901c RG13; Piece: 3525; Folio: 97; Page: 26
John Collin's age 70 gives birth c1831 
Ellen age 60 born c1841 Upholland

You mention that both John & Ellen are minors on their marriage 1859 looking at the 1901c John should have been about aged 28 in 1859 when he married so I would have thought of full age  Is this definately the correct family 1901c

1891 RG12; Piece: 3024; Folio 89; Page 13 – 348 Fleet Lane
John Collins 62 (1829) Woolton
Ellen 60 (1831) Upholland
Charles 20 (1861)
Mary ann 18 Prescot
Thomas Collins 48 coal miner Woolton

1881 Brook St Whiston
John Collins H M 48 coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen 48 bn Upholland
Esther Ellen daur 19 bn Upholland
Charles son 10 bn Upholland
Mary Ann daur 8 bn Prescot

1871 Ormskirk Road Rainford
John J Collins H M 29 (1842) coal miner bn Much Woolton
Ellen wife 35? (1836)  bn Upholland
Esther E daur 5 bn Upholland
Charles son 7 months bn Rainford

This looks to be son Charles birth entry unfortunately it doesn't give mothers maiden name to check whether it was GRADY - Do you have any of the childrens birth certificates ? It maybe worth checking that this is the correct family

Birth entry from lancashire bmd
1870 COLLINS Charles Rainford St Helens RAI/7/33

I can't find a John Collins born c1831 Much Woolton & Ellen born c1836/41 Upholland on the 1861 c the appear very elusive  

As hard as I try I can't seem to find a match for  Ellen Grady born c1836 Upholland on 1841 or 1851 censuses 

[Ladyhawk]

Do you know if John & Ellen's parents were alive when they married?

I have found this John Collins born Woolton on 1851 c

1851 HO107; Piece: 2194; Folio: 225; Page: 31- Head William Atherton 39 Coal Miner
John Collins 13 (1838) Woolton Lancashire Servant

[paulwaring]

well im more confused than ever now so will go to the older members of my family to try get more information  off them
thanks for all your help

[Radcliff]

witness to marriage Edward and Elizabeth Anderson
are these two related to John or Ellen

it doesnt say the fathers  are deceased,on the marriage record