Help in finding Army records Please!

[cschleibs]

Clearly I must have missed something!
I am trying to find my Great Great Grandfather war records.  His name is William Palmer born Birmingham in 1828 (according to census and marriage certificate)  He married Ann Lydia Smith in 1850 and was a Wood turner when his first son Joseph was born in Birmingham in 1851.  When his next three children were born, he had joined the Armed forces and was serving with the 11th Regiment of Foot.
The children being: William b. 1854 Birmingham; Sarah Jane b. 1857 Buttevent, Cork, Ireland and Martha Harriet Palmer b. 1859 in Aldershot UK.
I have Sarah Janes birth certificate and it states that William Palmer was a Sergeant.

The family is nowhere to be found on the 1861 Census so perhaps they were living abroad.  They may already be living in the West Indies as their next son Harold Taylor was born in 1864 in Demerara, British Guiana.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge on the British Army, but is it usual for soldiers to swap regiments as William is now serving in the 1st West Indian Regiment.

I have no trace of him after 1868 when their last child Harriet L Palmer was born in Aston, Warwickshire. (but not in Armed Forced Births) 
William must have died somewhere between 1868/9 and 1871 as his wife Ann Lydia is registered as a widow on the 1871 Census.
There is no record of his death on the UK BDM but there is only one William Palmer who died during this time in Malta on the Army Chaplin’s returns but have no confirmation that this is him.

Getting back to my query.... after doing numerous searches on Find My past, National Archives web site and random Google searches on the 11thFoot and 1st West Indian regiments, i can’t seem to find any war records on him???
Clearly I must have missed something!

[km1971]

Before c1883 they only kept service records of men awarded a pension. Do you know if he was still serving in 1868?

The 11th Regiment arrived home from Australia in February 1858, so the Depot they left in the UK must have been in Buttevant. They were in Aldershot from March 1859 to March 1860 - so that tallies. The main force was in Portsmouth for the 1861 census, but they may have had detachments in nearby towns/forts. Or he may have already been transferred before then.

There were two West India Regiments then – 1st and 2nd. They operated independently until being merged in the 1880s. Each regiment was usually split between 3 or more locations. The Depot was usually in the West Indies or Demerara. Most rank and file recruits came from white settlers in the West Indies. The idea being that they were used to the heat (and diseases) of the tropics. The death rate of UK born troops in the West Indies was so high it carried a 50% bonus in pensionable service for men enlisting before c1818. Things were better by 1860, so he may have taken the risk in exchange for promotion to Colour Sergeant. But this is only a guess.

Neither WIRs appear to have served in Malta. He may have transferred to a third regiment; or it is not him.

Ken

[cschleibs]

Thanks for replying Ken.
No i dont know if he was still serving in 1868 possibly not as his last child Harriet born in 1868/9 was not registered in the Army returns for Births like the other children.  I found her just in the normal UK births.

I think he may have already be transferred by the 1861 census.  I can find him or his family on it.

So do you mean that if he didnt have a pension, there possibly may be no other Armed forces records on him?

[ndess]

I am new, new to rootschat and navigating through the system.  This is really for km1971 in that he/she appears to be knowledgable on WIR.  My gggfather was enlisted in 1/10th Foot in 1859 and transferred to 1 WIR in 1861, an enlisted man, George William Smith.  In Sept 1866 he was promoted ensign in Sierra Leone and majically, almost 9 months to the day later, became a father (one heck of a "promotion" party).  His wife was the daughter of a gunner of RA.  His older brother was 1 WIR Lt. Col and commander in 1880, Joseph Alexander Smith.  All their siblings were born in theatre, Barbados, Demerara, Jamaica.  My question is where can I find birth records for serving officers etc stationed in the Carribbean from 1816 to 1879?

Any help is much appreciated

[km1971]

If you have tried the regimental/overseas BMDs on Findmypast, the only other set of records is the IGI. I assume you have followed his promotions as an officer in the London Gazette.

The only other thing I can suggest is to follow his service using the muster books in Kew and then look for church records in the places he served. You have to be careful with the WIR as they tended to be split into detachments of one or two companies - often on different sides of the Atlantic - so any reference to where they were, only really applies to the CO.

As you have already discovered the WIR also served in Africa.

Ken

[ndess]

Thanks Ken,

These are new sources and I am having difficulty on Gazette as anything I type comes up "Sorry, no information.  Must be my "left handedness". I do have JA basics but it his folks I am after via birth certs.  I have 1861 Census Brighton his mother Mary Ann, widow of an officer in British Army, with youngest born in Jamaica 1851, Anna Georgina.  The struggle is their birth records all being in Carib.

As I am in Canada, would you have any insight to a pro who could shorten the time and angst.  The connection to JA Smith was a result of some recently found letters from JA sister, Francia A, to my Grandfather in France 1917-1918 shortly before his battery was sited by a ballon and he lost his leg.  Obviously, he did survive!!

Thanks so much for your quick response.

Cheers
Des Smith

[km1971]

...  My gggfather was enlisted in 1/10th Foot in 1859 and transferred to 1 WIR in 1861, an enlisted man, George William Smith.  ...

Hi Des

Do you have his record? This is sort of information that would be given in that? If yes, it should give his place of birth.

Ken

[ndess]

Hi,

My direct ancestor, George William Smith had an early Officer form which was incomplete in WO76/515 where it gave his history from 1859 to 1881, missed a number of kids, and stopped earlier than Hart's said he went on pension.  His attestation papers or birth certs of any of his siblings (8 survived in all) would be the key.  Given that his older brother, Joseph Alexander spent his whole carreer in 1 WIR to being Lt. Col and commander of 1 WIR, I thought there would be more presence in the papers as he was in 1891 census a retired Major General.  All this a result of WW! letters in the family.  It appears that their father was an officer as well given their mother, Mary Ann, in 1861 census was the widow of an officer, she being born in Barbados 1816.