Author Topic: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?  (Read 11358 times)

Offline Pastmagic

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 01 November 11 15:32 GMT (UK) »
I am now wondering if perhaps these people went to one of the  County Family History Centres, not understanding what they are and how they work. They are not public archives, but research services, very unlike the National Library or National Archive, and you cannot conduct your own searches there, as far as I know, though its been years since I was in one. They do the searches, and there is a fee involved, or at least they did back then. All their records are available on the rootsireland.ie website. I may be totally wrong here, but I was really racking my brains on this one.
http://www.wicklow.ie/familyhistorycentre/ is my local one, to give you an idea.
PM

Offline Marcella Paget

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 01 November 11 19:56 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all of you for being so responsive and so helpful. It's reassuring that so many of you find this baffling. It certainly sounded weird to me. I bet that pastmagic is on the money here. An inexperienced researcher could easily make that mistake. I'll certainly take the advice to email or phone ahead if I want to consult local sources and am looking forward to spending a week buried in the archives in Dublin and especially the National Library which holds many relevant books and newspapers which are seemingly unobtainable in Australia. Thanks again.
James Beatty, Farmer, of Aghavoory, near Fivemiletown, Co. Fermanagh, 1797-1873. His son James Beatty, born Fermanagh 1842, Married Marcella Paget in Dublin 1873, had a drapery business in Ballina, Mayo approx 1860-1875 and emigrated to Victoria, Australia 1878. His brother was Archibald Beatty,  Merchant of Lisnaskea/Ballina/Liverpool.
Paget family of Knockglass, Crossmolina, Mayo, Ireland and Kinard, Enniscrone, Co. Sligo, Ireland, 1600s to 1878.

Offline jud72

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 02 November 11 03:18 GMT (UK) »
The church records of most of the parishes in South Tipperary are not available in the National Library, and are not available on www.rootsireland.ie .
The only way to access these records seems to be by getting the South Tipperary Family History Centre to conduct very expensive searches of their archives.
In the National Library, I was told that I should write to the appropriate diocese to get permission to view the records, but when I did this they responded by saying that I should re-direct my enquiries to the South Tipperary Family History Centre.
I have only come across this problem in South Tipperary, and would love for someone to explain to me the reason or logic behind this.
Also, are there other counties where this happens?

So, Marcella, I think there are some cases where difficulties do occur, but it is not the norm. I would recommend that you use the free-search facility on the rootsireland website to identify in which parishes and in which years you are likely to find the records that you are looking for.

Offline hallmark

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 02 November 11 09:52 GMT (UK) »
My understanding is the Church of Ireland records up to disestablishment are Public Records and therefore one has the legal right to freely view them...from memory Pre1874 records. So, locally held C of I records should be viewable.
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Offline andycand

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 02 November 11 10:40 GMT (UK) »
My understanding is the Church of Ireland records up to disestablishment are Public Records and therefore one has the legal right to freely view them...from memory Pre1874 records. So, locally held C of I records should be viewable.

I think jud72 might be refering to Catholic records not C of I.

Andy


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 02 November 11 12:36 GMT (UK) »
Just to clarify this about Church of Ireland records-
My understanding is the Church of Ireland records up to disestablishment are Public Records and therefore one has the legal right to freely view them...from memory Pre1874 records. So, locally held C of I records should be viewable.

Under the constitution of the Church of Ireland, ALL BMD records are still public records (even those after disestablishment in 1871).  Where records in local custody are not available (in any form) in a "Public repository" such as PRONI, the clergyman must make them available to members of the public.  However under the constitution there is a scale of fees payable and searches are to be conducted under the supervision of the clergyman at a time suitable to him/her.  Most clergy waive the fee unless a certified copy of the record is required.  The basic statutory fees are £12 (20 Euro) for a search (£19 per hour if conducted by the clergyman on your behalf - although he/she is under no statutory obligation to offer this service) and £6 for a certified copy of the register entry, although reduced fees are available for certain statutory purposes.

(Thanks to akanex2 for this information)
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline jud72

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 02 November 11 12:44 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I did mean Catholic records. Forgot to mention that.

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 02 November 11 12:58 GMT (UK) »
I think it’s very important to emphasise to anyone proposing to visit a church to see parish records that they need to contact the church in advance. I was in a graveyard in Co. Antrim recently when I was approached by a couple from New Zealand who had turned up unannounced on a weekday and were very disappointed to find the church locked, and apparently no way of gaining access that day.

And the parish records are often not kept in the church anyway. I know of one church locally where the older records are in the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast, another where the priest keeps them in the parochial house and a third where, though the records are in the church, they are in a fireproof safe to which only a couple of people have access.

With regard to the Church of Ireland fees, a Rector that I know does charge simply for access to the records, as well as for copies. I can confirm that the rate is £12 an hour, though some flexibility is shown about this, and it is often rounded down to £10. Most parish records in Northern Ireland and some adjacent counties have been copied and can be seen free in PRONI, so that’s a way of avoiding that charge, but a few parishes have not been copied and so inspecting them at the church/vicarage is then the only option.

Most Ministers, Priests & Rectors in Ireland get rather more genealogical enquiries than they can cope with. When you phone up to make an appointment you often hear a little intake of breath when you say why you are phoning. They don’t all welcome the enquiries and some have indicated it interferes with what they see as their proper pastoral work. (One Minister showed me a letter in which the writer asked for copies of all birth and marriage entries for a particular surname, since the church records began. You can imagine how much work that might have involved). A parish priest near me once commented that his priority lay with supporting his living parishioners, not the dead ones. I have never heard of anyone being refused permission to access the records but there is sometimes a delay. And I have heard of letters going unanswered. Phone calls, with plenty of advance notice, may prove more effective. Possibly worth bearing in mind when approaching churches.
Elwyn

Offline irishrose

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Re: Being blocked from doing your own Irish research and forced to pay a researcher?
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 02 November 11 18:12 GMT (UK) »
The access issue is hit and miss with different parishes.  My local parish will not let you see the records, but if you have dates they can look them up for you. (Not always realistic- sometimes you need to see the records to get the dates!!!)      But,   the reason for this is quite simple.  There are sixteen pages missing from the 1864 to 1954 birth register relating to dates from 1861 to around 1880.  It seems someone doing some research quite a while ago, took it upon themselves to rip out the full pages with their family records.   This has left huge gaps for all the rest of us attempting to research within these dates.  Also, the last time I did see the records, - before the ban on public access - the pages were getting thumbmarked and grubby.  I understand the present priests reluctance to let them get degraded further