No help on Europe forum, can someone help in the UK.

[carol8353]

Both Aghadowey and I have provided the link to your original request dated 22nd October 2011 incase anyone posts a reply on there to the same query.

If you have too many posts in different places on Rootschat asking the same question people tend to get confused and can duplicate their replies.

Carol

[johnabbots1]

As I mentioned before, I have recieved NO replies on the euro site, that is why I expanded my chances of a helpful reply to other areas of the forum. I also modified my question to a potential helper on the Beginners forum (as I am a beginner). Why then refer people back??? The people who may help are now confused because they will see the question I sent to the Euro board... 

[LEP1950]

Hi John,

I live in Germany and thought I might have been able to help you, but I seem to be having difficulty getting my message posted. I'm trying this to see what happens. If my original message (with addresses) is not posted in the next hour or so, I'll try again tonight.

LEP 1950

[johnabbots1]

Hi Lep1950,
Its great to hear from somebody who may be able to help.
I have some documents from my Father following my Grandmothers death. I am trying desperatley to find a link with her parents, their lives, where they lived etc. Any help will be amazing

[LEP1950]

Hi John,

A shortened version of my original reply. I don't know what happened to it.

I rang the Landesarchiv Schleswig Holstein for you and spoke to a woman there. She said that all birth, marriage and death registers are still with the relevant Standesämter. Another possibility of finding out more is to get in touch with the Landeskirchenarchiv.

This is the page of the Standesamt in Kiel:

http://www.standesamt.com/urkunden.php?standesamt_id=4524&q=Standesamt%20Kiel

The page is in German, but on the righthand side you can see "Kontaktadresse". I would write to them with a copy of the certificate you have and ask them to search for a relevant marriage certificate of the parents. Normally a certificate costs about 10 euros. I don't know whether they charge a search fee. You can write to them in English. Almost everyone in Germany speaks fairly decent English.

The other possibility is to write to the Kirchenarchiv and ask about the parish registers:

Address:

Nordelbisches Kirchenarchiv,
Postfach 3449,
24033 Kiel

Telefon: +49 / (0)4 31 / 64 98 60
Telefax: +49 / (0)4 31 / 68 08 36

E-Mail: archiv.nka - at - nordelbien.de (I've changed the at-sign in case that was the reason my message was not posted).

Again, I don't know whether a fee or a donation is applicable.

I couldn't make out the religion on the birth certificate. it seemed to start with a "d", which is strange. It doesn't seem to be "evangelisch" or "katholisch". I presume the parish registers mentioned above would only apply for German Protestants.

This is the email address of the town archives in Kiel. I don't know whether they have any relevant records:

Stadtarchiv-at - LHStadt.kiel.de

As I said above, for "at" use the usual sign.

There are hardly any parish registers online in Germany. Only Baden-Württemberg has its 19th century parish registers online for free. Mind you, hardly anyone can read them. I've taught myself but it's still very difficult.

I've made a note of the names and will keep my eyes open when I'm on German sites.  If I can help you in any other way, let me know.

Best wishes,
LEP 1950

[LEP1950]

"Diss" will, I suppose, refer to religious dissidents of some kind. However, the birth certificate of Ellie was issued expressly for a "Taufe" (baptism). In Germany you can get different copies for different purposes. I suppose, therefore, that the family were Christian dissidents.

I've been messing about on some sites concerning Kiel and I read some very good reports about very willing helpers in the Stadtarchiv.  One person wrote that a woman working there had copied him his grandfather's "Arienausweis". Although the purpose of these documents was horrible - to prove one was of Aryan descent  -  they often go back several generations. I think it is worth writing to them and asking for help, but don't forget to ask how much it would cost before they start looking. As I said one certificate is usually about 10 euros. Here's the address:


Landeshauptstadt Kiel
Stadtarchiv
Rathaus
Fleethörn 9
24103 Kiel

Telefon: 0431 / 901-3422
Fax: 0431 / 901-63423


Geöffnet (Open)
Montag und Dienstag: 8.30 - 16 Uhr (Monday and Tuesday)
Donnerstag: 8.30 - 18 Uhr (Thursday)

E-Mail: stadtarchiv (at) kiel.de


Marriage certificates seem to be just in the Standesämter. However, they will also have the names of both parents of the bride and groom.

I'd love to know how you get on and if I discover anything else interesting, I'll post.

LEP 1950

[apwright]

Her mothers name is Emmy (could be anny),

It's Anny as written.

Dissident here means the same as konfessionslos = non-confessional, i.e. he didn't have, or maybe just didn't declare, a religion. Perhaps he was never baptised, or was pulling the old no-religion trick to avoid paying Kirchensteuer (church tax).

Adrian

[LEP1950]

Hi John,

I agree with Apwright that the name of the mother is "Anny" (probably baptised Anna). I've looked at the certificate again properly. The father's religion is "diss" but the mother seems to be "evangelisch". Since the certificate was issued  "gültig nur zum Zweck der Taufe" (valid only for purposes of baptism), one can presume that Elly was baptised, unless a whole batch of certificates was issued pro forma. I just remember that we had various ones when my children were born.
By the way, Apwright, couldn't "diss" refer to Methodists or Baptists?  Or could Bruno have been Jewish? I read somewhere on the Internet about a Jewish schoolteacher, whose birth certificate said "diss" as religion.
John, I still think you should turn to the Stadtarchiv in Kiel. Apparently they produced 11 certificates for someone going back several generations "at a reasonable cost". I wish I could hep you, but I live in Berlin not Kiel.

Best wishes,
LEP 1950

[carinthiangirl]

why do you not ask at the registry-office/Standesamt in Kiel for more infos. they have made in 1929 the document you have:
Standesamt Kiel in Schleswig-Holstein:
http://www.hochzeit-in-sh.de/Standesamt-Kiel/Standesamt-Kiel.html

the adress Rathausstr.1 think is the adress they lived. Wohnung = apartment:
http://maps.google.at/maps?hl=de&sugexp=kjrmc&cp=17&gs_id=2k&xhr=t&q=Rathausstr.1+Kiel&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1016&bih=564&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

fathers name > Bruno Erich Meyer, occupation Kupferschmied/copper-smith,
religion diss. = dissident = in german "andersdenkend"
http://www.understandingyourancestors.com/wea/religion.aspx
"Im 18. Jahrhundert bezeichnet der Begriff denjenigen, den keiner anerkannte. Seit dem 19. Jahrhundert ist es jener, der keiner Religionsgemeinschaft angehört. Auch die Mitglieder der deutschkatholischen Vereine, die sogenannten Deutschkatholiken, sowie die protestantischen Freien Gemeinden, die sogenannten Lichtfreunde, die sich 1856 mit den Deutschkatholiken zum Bund Freireligiöser Gemeinden Deutschlands zusammenschlossen, wurden offiziell als Dissidenten bezeichnet. Üblich war der Begriff in Deutschland mindestens bis in die 1930er Jahre.
In the 18th Century, the term those whom no one recognized. Since the 19th Century, was one who belongs to no religion. The members of the German Catholic societies, the so-called German Catholics and the Protestant free churches, the so-called Friends of Light, which merged in 1856 with the German Catholics for Free federal Religious communities in Germany were officially called dissidents. the common term in Germany was usual at least until the 1930s."
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissident
mothers name > Anny Lucia Henriette geb./nee Höpner,
at religion looks like k.K. = keine Konfession = unaffiliated (no religion)



so her father will have been from one of this stated groups i think.
so-called German Catholics, the Protestant free churches, the so-called Friends of Light, which merged in 1856 with the German Catholics for Free federal Religious communities.
on top of document:
Gültig nur zum Zweck der Taufe = valid only for the purpose of baptism
Bescheinigung über Eintragung eines Geburtsfalles = certificate of registration of a birth case
think was possible used for a baptism of the child....?