Ratcliffe of Kingston on Thames, Hampton and Possibly Dorking

[T.R.]

I am searching for the birthplace of William Ratcliffe.  I have posted a similar request before but I have added a little more information here.

William Ratcliffe married to Mary Marshall by licence at Hampton, 17.1.1797. They were of that parish but the licence does not give a birthplace for bride or groom. Their children were baptised at Kingston on Thames.

William Ratcliffe was elected as Headborough for Hampton Wick for several years 1806 - 1812 and nominated as constable in 1805.

William was probably buried at St Marys, Hampton on 11.1.1834 at the age of 62 years. The burial of his wife Mary took place there in 1811. There are no cemetery headstones for Ratcliffe at St Marys.

The IGI suggests approx 1772 as the birth year (probably an approximate based on the marriage date and the licence) but the closest baptism record on the IGI is 1774 at Dorking (this would fit with the age at death).
Looking for other possible connections, the IGI has a Henry Ratcliffe, baptised at Kingston on Thames on 7.11.1775.  Henry was the son of son of Peter and Mary Ratcliffe.  No other children for Peter and Mary are recorded at Kingston On Thames.  However, on 1.5.1774, a William Ratcliffe, son of Peter and Mary Ratcliffe was baptised at Dorking (there are no later baptisms for the children of Peter and Mary at Dorking). This could suggest that the family moved from Dorking to Kingston On Thames.  However, I have not been able to confirm this. 
I have not found where Peter and Mary Ratcliffe were buried and I have found no other information to connect Henry R. of Kingston On Thames (1775) and William R. of Dorking (1774).

I haven't been able to find the birthplace of William’s wife, Mary Marshall. Again the IGI points to a baptism at Dorking on 2.2.1769 (she would have then been aged 28 at the time of marriage).

Coincidentally(?), a Peter Ratclif and Mary Rose married in 1769 at Southwark.  In 1797 a daughter of William R. and Mary was named Mary Rose Ratcliffe.
Although I am inclined towards Dorking, as the birthplace of William R., I would, very much, like to establish whether or not that is correct. I know of no reason why the family would move from Dorking to the area of Kingston on Thames.

Can anyone suggest how I might confirm or otherwise determine the birthplace of William Ratcliffe?

Regards

T.R.

[Valda]

Hi

The marriage of Peter according to the IGI was in 1768

PETER RATCLIFF    
MARY ROSE    
19th June 1768 Saint Olave, Southwark, Surrey
one of the witnesses was Ann Ratcliff (there is an Ann Ratcliffe baptism 8th April 1743 at St Botolph Bishopsgate parents Peter and Ann which may or may not be of any relevance)

The first baptism for the couple Peter and Mary in Dorking was for Jane 6th August 1769 which would fit for a 1768 marriage.
Sibling baptisms in the register
Peter 30th June 1771 (IGI gives a burial date of 1st June 1773)
Henry 24th January 1773 (IGI gives a burial date of 17th June 1773)
William 1st May 1774

and then the singleton baptism for Henry in Kingston upon Thames 17th November 1775.

If this was one family then the only surviving known siblings to William would be Jane and the second Henry.

There is this possible marriage for Henry

HENRY RATCLIFF    
SARAH SPONG    
1st April 1798 Thames Ditton, Surrey

A Henry and Sarah baptised an Elizabeth at St Mary Hampton 12th June 1814. Henry was a bargeman of Hampton Wick which doesn't sound to hopeful? The couple continued to baptise children in East Molesey. Caroline's baptism gives his occupation as miller.
Harriet 30th March 1817
Maria 6th August 1820
Caroline 22nd December 1822
with three earlier baptisms in the same parish
John 19th January 1806
Sarah 25th April 1808
Jane 25th November 1810

and earlier in Kingston upon Thames

William 29th January 1804

There is a Henry Ratcliffe aged 70 (adult ages usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census) in Kingston workhouse on the 1841 census. His occupation was given as miller. There is also an Elizabeth aged 20 a female servant. Both were born in county. This Henry was buried at All Saints Kingston 18th November 1846 aged 76 which is older than a 1776 baptism date.

Maria Ratcliffe married 30th August 1848 at St Alphege, Greenwich. She gave her father's name as Henry and occupation miller. One of the witnesses was Elizabeth Ratcliffe. On the 1851 census Maria was aged 28 and born Thames Ditton.

So conflicting evidence for this Henry concerning his age if he was a candidate for the brother of William, but would Henry's occupation/s be compatible with William's?
Much more difficult to follow a possible marriage for Jane.


Regards

Valda
 

[T.R.]

Hello Valda.

I apologise for not responding sooner.  The automatic alert that I have a Rootschat message doesn't seem to be working.

Thank you for your detailed message about the possible Ratcliffe / Dorking connection.  it has obviously taken time to research and prepare your reply.  I am grateful.  Thank you.

Your informatin has helped to flesh out some of the details.  In relation to the St Boltolph baptism of Ann, there was a baptisn of an Anne at Dorking in 1748 and a Sarah was baptised in 1744.  These fit with Peter's baptism in 1745 and they seem to be his siblings

As you have indicated the baptism date for Henry and the age which is given at the burial of a Henry in 1846 seem to be in conflict.  I don't know what to make of that.

I don't know what occupation William was in.  He was elected Headborough for a few years but I don't know whether this would have provided a livlihood for him and his family.  he would have needed some other occupatin for the time that he was not the Headborough.  The Peter who lived in Dorking had, in 1769, property to th value of 4 pounds, so wealth wasn't a feature of the family.   

I had come across a marriage of Henry Ratcliffe and Sarah Spong.  As a matter of interest, there is a posibility that their daughter Sarah (baptised 1808) was convicted at the Old Bailey on 9 May 1836 and transported to Van Dieman's land for a term of 7 years.

If the burial place of Peter and Mary Ratcliffe could be determined, that would confirm, one way or the other, a move from Dorking to Kingston On Thames.  It is tantalising that so many pieces seem to fit around that proposition.


Again, thank you for helping me.

Regards

T.R.