Elizabeth Banyard

[micaddison]

ok, i also have 
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Marriages&RecordID=1661274

but its spelt Anderson which im thoroughly sure is a mispelling of Addison because everything else works out, just makes me more confused, i think it needs fresh eyes and some sort of logic machine to straighten  it out for me
what you say about her been confused as to her father/surname sort of makes it seem easier to take in,
i think the Robert in this is standing in for Henrys father because he is absent *cough*
forgot to mention that Robert Addison is Henrys uncle, Susans brother
, but whats happening with Charles Banyard and James Newman! is it a mistake and charles is her son or brother or had someone dragged him in? lol
but i think if we could crack this nut then it would solve alot of mystery with other people i have spoken to about this, i talked to the oldest living Addison i know who would have known these people but she says that ernests generation nver had much to do with nor knew much about their grandparents.

County               Norfolk
Place                  Downham Market
Church                St Edmund
RegisterNumber   90
MarriageDate       22 Oct 1865
GroomForename  Henry
GroomSurname   ANDERSON
GroomAge           22
GroomParish        Downham
GroomCondition   Bachelor
GroomOccupation Lab
GroomAbode
     
BrideForename     Elizabeth
BrideSurname      BANYARD
BrideAge              24
BrideParish           Downham
BrideCondition      Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode

GroomFather
Forename           Robert
GroomFather
Surname            ANDERSON
GroomFather
Occupation         Lab Decd

BrideFather
Forename          Charles
BrideFather
Surname           BANYARD
BrideFather
Occupation        Lab Decd

WitnessOne
Forename          James
WitnessOne
Surname           NEWMAN

WitnessTwo
Forename          Harriett
WitnessTwo
Surname           BUSSELL

Notes
Banns; He Xd
FileNumber      14613

[Annette7]

Think the only certain way to 'crack' this is to get the birth certificate of Elizabeth Newman to ascertain the name given for her mother.

If, as seems likely, James Newman wasn't married to Elizabeth, it seems odd that the local vicar at Downham Market would have recorded the baptism as Newman and naming James and Elizabeth as the parents.   It was only a small place and surely their 'situation' would have been known.   I note that Charles Banyard b.1833 is with James' parents Elias and Rebecca Newman in 1841 at Kings Lynn.   From what I can gather not too hot on ages - in 1841 James and Elizabeth are shown as aged 20 but she was b.1810 and he 1814!

The only certainty I can suggest is as mentioned before - the Elizabeth Newman birth certificate 1842 to establish mother Elizabeth's surname once and for all. 

Annette

[micaddison]

good thinking, i just trying to order the Elizabeths birth cert, Henry and Elizabeths marriage cert and one of their childrens birth certs, just make sure i got it nailed down all round.
its all good fun this

[micaddison]

alrighty then, to keep anyone following this thrilling saga
Elizabeth Newman born 10 May 1842 at Downham, to James Newman and Elizabeth Newman (formerly Beckett)
my great grandfather Ernest Addison was born 1889 to Henry Addison and Elizabeth Addison (formerly Banyard)
getting the certs only managed to prove that i need to find some old people and harass them until i get answers, but interestingly i have managed to find a living neighbour of theirs, not sure how to start the conversation with the old girl "hi, my great grandparents lived nextdoor, now tell me what you know!"

oh, and my dad had another rumage thru papers and gave me more names, all Newman, i think i may move my focus to someone else and resign to never knowing the truth to this

Michael Addison
attached is the face of the enemy, elizabeth with ernest, dont know who the kid or the dog are

[Annette7]

I still believe the scenario I listed before is correct.

Elizabeth Beckett bp.28/11/1810 Reymerston, dau. Wm and Phoebe (nee Good)
Louisa Beckett bp.7/2/1819 Reymerston,                ditto

So these 2 definitely sisters.

Elizabeth Beckett married Charles Banyard 5/2/1833 Reymerston - their apparent only child, Charles b.16/5/1833, bp.2/5/1833 East Dereham.

By 1841 Elizabeth is living with James Newman and has taken his name.   Her son Charles is with James Newman's parents.   Her husband Charles, a Horse Keeper, is living alone in East Dereham.

In 1842 James Newman and said Elizabeth, still in Downham have a daughter Elizabeth who is registered and baptised as Newman.    Legally, as her parents were not married, she should have been registered under her mothers given name, and legally this was Banyard.

If the vicar who married them asked some pertinent questions it might have emerged that her parents had never been married and thus, correctly, he listed her as Elizabeth Banyard - no wonder the poor woman was confused.   Legally a Banyard but registered and baptised a Newman (name of her actual father).

Can't figure out what happened to Charles Banyard, senior.   He was not the Charles Banyard died and buried 1845 - this was another one (shown as a Gent) who was married to a Sarah at East Dereham and listed as a widow in 1851. 

Regardless of the shenanigans along the way, your Elizabeth was the daughter of James Newman and Elizabeth (nee Beckett) who was legally still a Banyard at the time of her birth.

Annette

[micaddison]

your great at this, im using your exact words to explain this to others, i managed to confuse myself trying to explain it in my own words

many thanks

Michael Addison

[Annette7]

Glad it all makes sense for you now.

Good luck.

Annette

[parkwood]

I still believe the scenario I listed before is correct.

Elizabeth Beckett bp.28/11/1810 Reymerston, dau. Wm and Phoebe (nee Good)
Louisa Beckett bp.7/2/1819 Reymerston,                ditto

So these 2 definitely sisters.

Elizabeth Beckett married Charles Banyard 5/2/1833 Reymerston - their apparent only child, Charles b.16/5/1833, bp.2/5/1833 East Dereham.

By 1841 Elizabeth is living with James Newman and has taken his name.   Her son Charles is with James Newman's parents.   Her husband Charles, a Horse Keeper, is living alone in East Dereham.

In 1842 James Newman and said Elizabeth, still in Downham have a daughter Elizabeth who is registered and baptised as Newman.    Legally, as her parents were not married, she should have been registered under her mothers given name, and legally this was Banyard.

If the vicar who married them asked some pertinent questions it might have emerged that her parents had never been married and thus, correctly, he listed her as Elizabeth Banyard - no wonder the poor woman was confused.  Legally a Banyard but registered and baptised a Newman (name of her actual father).Can't figure out what happened to Charles Banyard, senior.   He was not the Charles Banyard died and buried 1845 - this was another one (shown as a Gent) who was married to a Sarah at East Dereham and listed as a widow in 1851. 

Regardless of the shenanigans along the way, your Elizabeth was the daughter of James Newman and Elizabeth (nee Beckett) who was legally still a Banyard at the time of her birth.

Annette

Possibly and probably correct but she registered her son Charles as a Newman who then changed to Banyard who then in census states he is born London until the 1911 census where he puts Norfolk, dies Sheffield 1923
Possible Elizabeth is working London 1860'S,
a very tangled web that has had me bamboozled for the past ten years or so.

[Agatha R]

I now know that Elizabeth Banyard's mother left her father Charles when pregnant, for a Man called James Newman, Elizabeth was registered Banyard at birth but Christened Newman, and appears as newman on the census's, so which one is actually her father is anyones guess.
Thankyou everyone for your help