Where do you look

[Foehn]

Great grandfather Toledo Frankfort Hamilton FIELD was born in Sydney. At least that what it says on his Death certificate. Going by his age at death that would have made his birth year about 1837, yet I cannot find him. His most likely parents were Robert Field and Margaret Drummond who were married in Tasmania on 1 February 1836 and were later recorded as passengers from Hobart to Sydney the same year, so Toledo's birth certain fits here.

Is there anyone out there, who may have been searching the same surname, who has come across this birth anywhere.

[wivenhoe]

Where and when did Toledo Frankfort Hamilton Field  die?

Can you give his marriage details and children please..... names, dates, places.

Do you have any other reason to think Robert Field and Margaret Drummond might be his parents?.

[cando]

More info on this link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fnp/

Cando

[Foehn]

Where and when did Toledo Frankfort Hamilton Field  die?

Can you give his marriage details and children please..... names, dates, places.

Do you have any other reason to think Robert Field and Margaret Drummond might be his parents?.

Thanks for your reply Wivenhoe.

Toledo Frankfort Hamilton Field died at the home of his Daughter Margaret Elizabeth Beasley, on 30 May 1922 and is buried in the Waikaraka Cemetery, Auckland NZ

I do have all his details re marriage and children although I am not sure how this can help.  Please let me know if you do require them.

According to his death certificate he was born in Sydney circa 1837.

It is the elusive link to his father Robert Field I require. I am aware of the work done by A C Field. (aka) Lance and I worked together on the project that netted us most of the information. The link provided by Cando though, has a huge injustice I believe to our family.  Lance got really frustrated   by the brick wall we ran into over Robert and chose to ignore one of the strongest pieces of evidence we had.  His death was reported by his son Toledo.

I hope this link will open for you.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=DSC18630926.2.19&srpos=5&e=-------10--1----0robert+field--

You will note that the newspaper advertisement says quite clearly that Robert Field was "Formerly of Dublin" There is other evidence to support the fact that Robert Field was an Irishman. He was also in the Bay of Islands in 1830, therefore making it unlikely that he was in prison in Australia until "pardoned" several years later.  The Robert Field/ Margaret Drummond is likely, unless Robert (ours) was never in Tasmania to begin with, but he certainly was in Sydney (birth of his son) and I suspect his daughter too, who died in Auckland in the 1840s  aged 4˝. Her name was Elizabeth.

Therefore, despite good work carried out by others, unless I can find a proper paper trail, I do not believe that Our Robert Field was either English, or imprisoned as shown in Cando's link. Any help to unravel this mystery is greatly appreciated.

[Foehn]

More info on this link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0fnp/

Cando

Thanks for the link Cando. I am aware of the work done by my cousin A. C. (Lance) Field, but as you will see from my post above, that brick wall we ran into was a great source of annoyance and when Lance brought me the information he had absolutely no proof that the Robert/Englishman/convict was the same Robert as the person known to be our Gts grandfather. I'd really like to clear up this mystery properly if it's at all possible, as now the younger generations are accepting a family line that I am certain is not correct.
Any help greatly appreciated.

[majm]

May I add some questions to the others please

Re that cutting from NZ Papers Past and the mention of Robert Field as formerly of Dublin... he was 76 in 1863, so if that is the same chap who married in Hobart in 1836, he was not a young man when he married Margaret Drummond.   I note there is no mention of a widow or family for that chap in that notice, nor any mention of NSW or VDL.

Do you think that your Robert Field may have been married previously?

Do you have any sightings for Robert and Margaret Field in NSW in 1837 please?
 
Do you have any likely arrival dates for Robert and Margaret and Toledo into NZ please?

Do you have any thoughts as to why Toledo has that as his given name please, could that be a clue to parentage?
 
When Toledo Frankfort Hamilton Field married, I presume it was in NZ, ... does the MC or the ITM give you info about how long he had been in that district, his age, his parents, his place of birth?

Among Toledo's children ... is there a naming pattern to help suggest parentage please..

Cheers,  JM

[wivenhoe]

My request for information about family was due to the lack of detail in your opening note to the forum.

The later link to a previous request at another site gives more information.

[Foehn]

May I add some questions to the others please

Re that cutting from NZ Papers Past and the mention of Robert Field as formerly of Dublin... he was 76 in 1863, so if that is the same chap who married in Hobart in 1836, he was not a young man when he married Margaret Drummond.   I note there is no mention of a widow or family for that chap in that notice, nor any mention of NSW or VDL.

Do you think that your Robert Field may have been married previously?

I have no family history either written or anecdotal that he married more than once.

Do you have any sightings for Robert and Margaret Field in NSW in 1837 please?

  No. Only have the mention that Toledo was born in NSW (on death certificate)
 

Do you have any likely arrival dates for Robert and Margaret and Toledo into NZ please?

I picked them up as arrivals from Sydney  in 1840
 

Do you have any thoughts as to why Toledo has that as his given name please, could that be a clue to parentage?

Family story was something to do with a duel fought in Spain, but that may well have been untrue
 

When Toledo Frankfort Hamilton Field married, I presume it was in NZ, ... does the MC or the ITM give you info about how long he had been in that district, his age, his parents, his place of birth?

I have a copy of the register of Marriage. It has May 27 1876, The Manse St Andrews which was in Christchurch. On certificate it says, Toledo F H Field aged 37 Printer bachelor. (No mention of how long either had been in the country,  but his death certificate of 1922, says he was 85 at death and been in NZ for 70 years. The maths doesn't quite work here. Interestingly it also says his father was Henry Frankfort Field, not Robert. So errors I think.)
Marriage continued and Martha Williamson 21 Spinster His first son was born on 3 July 1876 and was also called Toledo Frankfort Hamilton Field . You may surmise that this marriage was not looked on favourably, given age differences and a very pregnant bride who had to wait until she was 21. Family differences were patched up I am glad to say.
Other siblings were Robert Henry, Mary Ann Cissy (named after her grandmother Williamson) William Sydney, Margaret Elizabeth (Likely paternal Grand mother and father's deceased sister) Frederick, Ellen Rose and Alfred Edward.

Among Toledo's children ... is there a naming pattern to help suggest parentage please..

There is an Irish family that is of interest.  You can follow my enquiry here on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,560099.0.html


Notice there are many of the same family names in this line


Thanks for any help you can give, regards, Foehn

[majm]

Perhaps one of my questions was not exactly clear.... 

Do you have any likely arrival dates for Robert and Margaret and Toledo into NZ please?

I had read the link giving 1840,  I was asking for the dates  .. as in month of 1840... 

I have some offline NSW resources and I am happy to look through to try to help, but I was hoping for clues ...  I am somewhat confused as to the fundamental question you are seeking answers to.   I think you are trying to confirm or eliminate Robert and/or Margaret being Toledo's parents.

Does Toledo's d.c. state Sydney NSW or just Sydney or just NSW please...  and is it NS Wales or NS or NSW or New South Wales. 

I am in NSW, so I am less sure of NZ admin systems, but have you already tried to confirm or eliminate the newspaper cutting chap as being the husband of Margaret? and/or the father of Toledo?

Have you sought the Intention To Marry document for that 1876 marriage at CHCH .... There are often further details on those.   

I will have another look in the morning, hopefully I will have less questions then... It is perhaps near midnight in NZ, as it is near ten pm here.

Cheers,  JM