* Smith jumped ship

[brita]

I Live in England & have a * Smith born * 1920 in *, Lancashire to Edward Smith & Mary Smith (nee Phelan). Both parents are Irish. I haven't managed to find their marriage record in Ireland or England, so I'd be grateful if anyone can help regarding *'s parents' origins.

I understand that * jumped ship (I don't know whether merchant or RN) in Auckland, New Zealand, probably the late 1940s or early 1950s & none of the family has heard from him since. I appreciate how vague this information is but, I'd really appreciate it if anyone can shed any light on *'s whereabouts & what happened to him or provide me with advice on how to go about finding him.

Thanks very much in anticipation, Brita

* see next reply

[aghadowey]

Rootschat isn't a forum for tracing lost relatives who could still be alive so I've removed some identifying information in your post (someone born in 1920 could easily still be living).

"I haven't managed to find their marriage record in Ireland or England"
The Irish civil registration index is online (free) and covers up to 1921 for all of Ireland (up to 1958 for the Republic of Ireland). Is that where you checked for the marriage records? (you need to search for bride and groom separately then cross-reference the results for a match.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927084

FreeBMD website has greatly increased the coverage of records in the last year or so and you can try there for English marriages if you haven't done so already.

It's even possible that the parents never married or that they married after the son was born so it's best to check for a very wide range of dates if you don't find the record near the date you thought. If he was illegitimate his birth would probably be registered in mother's name (unless the registrar had no indication that the parents weren't married).
Also, he might not have been the eldest child in the family or might be the first/only child born years after parents married.

[brita]

Thanks very much for the tips.
Unfortunately, I had already looked in these places. Perhaps you're right & the parents never married. The Smith I'm looking for had an older brother, who is now deceased, & a younger one. The oldest brother was born in Dublin & the youngest one in England.
The Smith I'm looking for had both mother & father on his birth certificate & the surname was spelt Smith but I think the surname was also spelled Smyth at times.
Both parents were killed in 1945.
I hope this is OK.

[Billyblue]

Hello Brita
He's more likely to have jumped ship from the merchant navy.
If from the RN, he would have been looked for vigorously one would think, as this is considered desertion.

Do you know that he was in the RN?   Is there a service record?  This would tell you straight away if he had deserted.

With the merchant navy, how well he was chased up would probably depend on what shipping line.
Some of them seemed to just 'shrug the shoulders' and look for someone else to sign up;  others put notices in Police / Government Gazettes (though not sure about mid 20th century).

There may have been something in the newspapers.  Have you looked on TROVE?  This goes up to about 1953 from memory.
Doesn't anyone in the family remember what ship/s he was on?
Of course, if he did jump ship it's also likely that he changed his name.

Have you looked on the various states' BDM listings for his death / marriage?  Or in New Zealand?

Dawn M

[suffolk*sue]

Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958

Edward Smith
Apr-May-Jun 1918
Registration district: Dublin North
Volume: 2
Page: 522


Mary Phelan is on the same page, but whether these two were married to each other, I don't know.

[brita]

Thanks very much Suffolk*Sue. I'm almost sure this is the right record as the deceased brother, Joseph, was born in Nov 1918. I've spent hours looking on Ancestry for the marriage record & couldn't find it. You must have a special knack. Brill! I'll get the certificate to check.

[brita]

Thanks Billy Blue.

The family know very little about this chap. I've had a look on the Ancestry service records but can't find anything, but as you can see from my response to Suffolk Sue, I don't appear to be very good at searching. I'll check again.

I haven't heard of TROVE so I'll investigate that next.

I have searched the BMDs for a marriage but I haven't any information that defines this Smith, except his common forenames, from any other on line. I will need to go somewhere that I can find the whole records, perhaps Kew. I can't find access to NZ BMDs on-line.

I really appreciate your help. Thanks.

[aghadowey]

Ancestry have very few Irish records. The civil registration index is online (free) - https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1&countryId=1927084

See here for details included on Irish marriage certificates and how to order them-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html

[brita]

Thanks very much aghadowey.