LUND Ellen (Completed)

[Lucy2]

I'm back in the running :-)

Beaut  ... and don't even think about deserting us now !   

There's much to ponder.

*   Mother born Ireland ... maiden name YOUNG ?  (How Irish is that surname ?  )   

*   Supposedly married to FONG in 1875 ?     Seems odd that there is only one birth (some 8 years later) - George, 1883 - registered for this couple.   [All up, there's only a handful of births for the FONG surname. ]

*   It's long "troubled" me, that Elizabeth wed Mr LUND in 1888, using the name "Ellen DOUGLAS".  ??
 [Evidence presented by the Police in the 1892 case, suggested she was a widow - possibly named SEFFEILD (SEFFELL) or somesuch.    So why use "DOUGLAS" ?   Why is she "Ellen" for the purpose of marriage and "Elizabeth" when registering the births of her children ? ]
 
    ~  Lu 

[kiwi-terrier]

Elizabeth Ann Seffell / Sellfill  death cert, no parents mentioned or where born.

Kiwi-terrier

[Beg Clonrode...]

Elizabeth Ann Seffell / Sellfill  death cert, no parents mentioned or where born.

Hi KT :-)

That's a nuisance to say the least.

Just wondering if finances allow you to order her 1879 birth certificate

1879/11028 - SEFFILL, Elizabeth Anne - mother: Elizabeth  father: Thomas

Common sense(?) says it's the same girl. Maybe the parent's details are more complete.

Regards
Beg

PS - Totally understand that money doesn't grow on trees :-)

[kiwi-terrier]

That certificate has been ordered, just waiting for it turn up.
 
kiwi-terrier

[spades]

Hi KT,

I'll get the ITM for you.

Spades

[kiwi-terrier]

Hi Beg

This will make your day, had another look on Elizabeth FONG birth cert
it shows a marriage date ( drum roll please    )
 Aug 1882 Dunedin John FONG / Elizabeth DOUGLAS

Kiwi-terrier

[Lucy2]

.... had another look on Elizabeth FONG birth cert
it shows a marriage date ( drum roll please )
 Aug 1882 Dunedin John FONG / Elizabeth DOUGLAS

Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a marriage record for this particular couple.   

In the article "Auckland Star" - 4 February 1892 - A Sad Case - page 4, Ex-Detective STRATHERN had this to say regarding Elizabeth LUND*.

"The children in Court were the children of Mrs LUND, a widow.
She was widow (Mrs SEFFIELD) living in Dunedin with her two children, when she took up with a Chinaman,  Ah FONG and lived with him as his wife and had two children by him. After removal to Auckland where they continued to cohabit till about 3 and half years ago, he left her and went to Newcastle".

*  Elizabeth LUND  :    Married as "Ellen DOUGLAS" to John LUND in 1888.

No recorded marriages found for either a John FONG or an Ah FONG.

[Lucy2]

Hi K-T

From the birth cert. for Elizabeth FONG (1886) can you tell us please, the following :

*   Age of father, John FONG

*   Age and place of birth of mother, Elizabeth DOUGLAS.

Thanks.

   ~  Lu

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi Beg

This will make your day, had another look on Elizabeth FONG birth cert
it shows a marriage date ( drum roll please    )
Aug 1882 Dunedin John FONG / Elizabeth DOUGLAS

Kiwi-terrier

Hi again KT...

We really do need some sort of whiteboard to link all of the names, dates and locations given in this thread so far (like on the US cop shows) but I guess pen and paper will have to suffice.

Unsurprisingly I'm still confused about the middle(?) daughter Lily/Lillian (who I'd bet is the Elizabeth b.1886 in Dunedin).

Just seeking clarification so no urgency...

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It would seem there are TWO Elizabeth

1) 1879 Elizabeth Ann
2) 1886 Elizabeth
3)  ? George
4)  abt 1889 Lily aka Lillian Elizabeth
5)  1889 Eda Ellen

Upon what are you basing the "abt 1889". Is it just Lillian Elizabeth LUND's year of death (1966) minus age at death (77 years).

Or do you have have a death certificate or such. If so, who was the informant and were parents mentioned.

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Have found that Elizabeth FONG entered the Industrial School as Elizabeth SEFFELL she died in 1897 and is buried in Purewa as SEFFELL

What made you say Elizabeth FONG was Elizabeth SEFFELL. Was there some note in the Industrial School records linking the two.

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Elizabeth FONG entered the Industrial School as Elizabeth SEFFELL
Lily FONG [...] entered Industrial School as Lily FONG

So an Elizabeth SEFFELL and a Lily FONG are definitely on record as entering the Industrial School. Is there a separate record for the aforementioned Elizabeth FONG.

And, out of interest, what information do the Industrial School records contain. Age, nationality, parents etc

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Entered Industrial School as Lily FONG but died as Lillian Elizabeth LUND and yes the probate gave us the answer

How did the probate link Lily FONG and Lillian Elizabeth LUND.

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Just trying to get a clearer picture of Lily. Even though this isn't your original request (which was find the mother) every bit of info helps, as you well know :-)

All the best
Beg