Davidson /Bryden deaths help needed

[jule]

Having lots of fun tracing my Davidson/Bryden and Bruce Scottish ancestors (mainly using the census records)  but I have three death dates eluding me and would love some help please.  Information on the Davidson line is proving elusive. Robert Davidson  (B:approx 1823 White K Linlithgowshire) married Agnes Bryden (B:1821 Muirkirk) in 1842 in Muirkirk. They had 5 children with Thomas Bryden Davidson being my GGgrandfather.
I would love to know who Robert Davidson's parents were.
Son Thomas's DC says his father was a marine engineer. Robert appears on the 1851 census with 4 children and wife Agnes but in the 1861 census Agnes is head of family and a one yr old child Sam has joined the family. Did Robert die around 1860 or leave the family? In the 1871 census, Sam is absent also. Did he die? Last of all, I do not have a death date for Agnes Davidson and would dearly love to know. I have tracked her to 1891 when she lived with her daughter Agnes Mclean in Glasgow. Any help about any family member would be much appreciated. Thankyou Jule

[MonicaL]

Hi Jule

May help just to note down Robert and Agnes's children for background:

James Bryden Davidson b. 25 Jul 1841 in Muirkirk
Agnes Davidson born c. 1847 in Govan
Sarah Davidson born c. 1850 in Govan
William Davidson born c. 1854 in Glasgow
Thomas Bryden Davidson b. 25 Jan 1855 in Glasgow
Jane Nisbet Davidson b. 1 Sep 1859 in Muirkirk

The family in 1851 (you have these already I know):

Robert Davidson 28 Mechanic In Printfield, b. White K, Linlithgowshire
Agnes Davidson 29 b. Muirkirk
Agnes Davidson 4
Sarah Davidson 1
Address: 4 Mcneil St, Gorbals

And in 1861:

Agnes Davidson 40
Agnes Davidson 14
Sarah Davidson 11
William Davidson 7
Thomas Davidson 5
Sam Davidson 1 b. Muirkirk
Address: 8 Bridge Row, Muirkirk

Monica

[MonicaL]

Just some questions from the details above from me!

Have you looked at son Thomas' 1855 birth cert. The first year of Scottish official registration, and for one year only, the BMD certs included lots of additional info and should give you more info re parents.

What is the marital status of Agnes in 1861?

I think the 'Sam' that you are seeing on the 1861 transcripted entry is actually Jane b. September 1859 in Muirkirk (the transcript shows 'Sam' as female). A check of her birth cert would let you confirm further details on her father Robert likely.

A check of the 1851 census original image or the 1855 birth cert for Thomas will hopefully help you to establish Robert's birth place.

Given the names for the children, likely you have come across this possible birth entry for Agnes?:

Agnes BRYDEN chr. 29 JUN 1821 in Muirkirk to parents Thomas BRYDEN and Sarah TEMPLETON

Monica

[MonicaL]

The family's 1851 census entry shows on FreeCen www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl  Father Robert's birth place is given on this transcript as Whitburn, West Lothian (Linlithgowshire).

Also, young Jane b. 1859 is alive and well with grandmother Sarah I think, for 1871:

Sarah Templeton 82, Grocer, b Muirkirk
Jane Davidson 11, grandchild b. Muirkirk
Address: Garron Hill Grocer's Shop, Muirkirk

Monica

[MonicaL]

Jule, with what info you have so far, wonder whether this could be Robert's family (with the names of his children and the refences we have to Garron Hill/Muirkirk from Agnes' family?):

From 1841:

William Davidson 40, joiner b. Scotland
Jean Davidson 35 b. Scotland
Robert Davidson 15 b. Scotland
William Davidson 14 b. Scotland
Catherine Davidson 13
Ann Davidson 11
John Davidson 9
Elizabeth Davidson 6
Mary Davidson 4
N K (not know) 2 Weeks
Address: Muirkirk Garranhill

Jumping to 1851, is I think this entry for the family:

Wm Davidson 53, wright, b. Whithorn*, West Lothian
Jean Davidson 49 b. West Calder, Midlothian
John Davidson 19, wright b. Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Elizabeth Davidson 16 b. Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Mary Davidson 13 b. Muirkirk, Ayrshire
Address: Porter Lodge, Mauchline Ayrshire

*Likely Whitburn in West Lothian rather than Whithorn - Whithorn is in a diffent county, Wigtownshire.

One to keep on the back burner until you are hopefully able to confirm...

Monica

[MonicaL]

Sorry, for the number of posts...it's like picking at a thread sometimes and then it start to unravel....

Regarding the possible family for Robert Davidson, just additional possible confirmation that his was his family. We had a daughter Jane NISBIT Davidson born to Robert and Agnes in 1859.

I think the Davidson family from Whitburn that we have in 1841/51 is likely the correct one. I can't see on IGI the birth entry for the Robert and elder siblings in Whitburn, but the later births in Muirkirk seem to show. These give parents names as William Davidson and mother Jane/Jean NE/ISBIT:

1. Anne DAVIDSON chr. 22 March 1829
2. Catherine DAVIDSON  chr. 22 March 1827
3. Elizabeth DAVIDSON b. 16 March 1834
4. Mary DAVIDSON b. 5 Aug. 1837

There are marriage/banns for parents showing on IGI:

William DAVIDSON and Jane NISBET m. 19 Feb. 1822 in Whitburn, West Lothian.

Family looks a good match for your Robert  ...subject to being able to confirm hopefully elsewhere!

Monica

[MonicaL]

So going back to death certs....

Robert, not sure  Think you need to narrow down dates from daughter Jane's birth cert forward...

Sam has become Jane and you now need to look for marriage etc.

Agnes and her death, have you discounted the Glasgow death in 1894 for an Agnes Bryden/Davidson born c. 1824?

Monica

[jule]

Thankyou so much Monica.......for questions answered and avenues to pursue! So much to absorb! I do have Thomas's Birth Cert for 1855 and it says "Robert Davidson, mechanic, 30 yrs Born Glasgow Lanarkshire"  Residence is the 4 Macneil St. Marriage confirmed at Muirkirk 1842 and now you have discovered Robert junior's 1841 birth, I  understand why the BC stated they had 2 boys and 2 girls living in 1855. Glad to know that Sam/Jane was OK and living with grandma Templeton also. About the deaths of Robert and Agnes.... to be truthful I didn't know where to search for Scottish BD&Ms (it's very straightforward in Australia, with tiny population and free access online) Where do you get your BD&M info? What exactly is IGI? That death for Agnes sounds right. You have given me so much information Monica that I won't be able to sleep tonight mulling it over in my mind and making the connections. I wonder why James, their first child did not appear on the 1851, or 61or 71 census. I'll try to track him down. Once again many thanks Monica from a most excited Julie

[MonicaL]

Hi Julie

In respect of following up on BMDs (and original images of the censuses rather than transcripts) here in Scotland, the only source is Scotlands People here www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

It is free to register and do general searches but it is pay to view (although costs are reasonable). See here for additional guidance notes www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html  There are also good help notes on the Scotlands People site itself.

IGI is the International Genealogical Index from the LDS site here http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true  The LDS have now released a new site which brings together more records here www.familysearch.org/#start

Monica