Author Topic: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?  (Read 18945 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 10 October 11 03:02 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Some questions  ;)

 :) Do you know if Esther had a middle name please? 
 :) Also from her mc, does it give the name of the person giving consent to her marriage to George Creighton? 
 :) And, any thoughts as to likely names for her parents please ...


I will try to find quiet time to go through my hardcopy records and notes for around Narrabri in the 1870's etc 

Fingers crossed

Cheers,  JM
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Offline Kylie B

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 10 October 11 04:42 BST (UK) »
Hi JM
They are certainly an elusive family...it took me years to discover George Snr's death in QLD.

Edith (possible middle name Evelyn) married on 14 Sept 1911- Edith was listed as born in Coonamble, daughter of George Creighton (carpenter and deceased) and Esther Taylor (deceased)

Emily Jane married on 7th July 1900 to Peter Baruffi (an Italian coalminer). She is listed as born in Coonamble, daughter of George Creighton (labourer and deceased) and Dorothy Whalan....now wondering if Dorothy was an adoptive mother??

Sarah was born on 16th March 1887- it states her parents to be George Creighton (labourer aged 43yrs from Manchester England) and Esther nee Taylor (from Mille near Narabri aged 28). It states Esther and George were married on 19th June 1875. 2 boys and 2 girls living siblings, no deceased siblings.

George and Esther's marriage certificate states they were married by rights of Church of England- on 19th July 1875. Listed as Bachelor and Spinster- NO ages recorded, NO birthplaces, NO parents names and NO fathers occupations. Witnessed by Peter Dodd and Andrew Cochrane. No no mention of a fathers permission, but no indication of being a minor either....but if she was 28 in 1887 then she was 15 or 16 when she married. This is consistent with Edith's birth certificate from 1882 which lists Esther as aged 23.

I have not seen any mention of a middle name for Esther.
And really no idea of possible parents....George's parents were Sarah and Joseph, so that leaves Charles, Edith, Emily and George's middle name of Hector as possibles.....

Kylie

Offline majm

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 10 October 11 04:50 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

And no little CREIGHTONs with a Thomas or Maria as given names  ;)  so I may be way way off track but ...

Re Esther

I am being VERY Speculative, but have you considered :

1856 marriage NSW Thomas TAYLOR to Maria A MATTHEWS in the Early Church Records index at NSW BDM ... Line 119 of Vol 43B .... Church of England,   with the code MC .... Bungonia, Goulburn, St Saviour’s (Co Argyle), Goulburn Plains, Lake Bathurst, Marulan.

From NSW BDM index, there’s a civil birth registered for an ESTHER TAYLOR with parents as Thomas and Maria A, registered in the Goulburn District, in 1859  ... #7675.   There’s other likely siblings, younger and older than that Esther.   

It is still a very long way from the Goulburn districts up to Narrabri, and would have been much more difficult to traverse back in the 1860's but "just in case ;) " ... on spec ...   that's the closest I can find to Esther's likely birth...

PS, a THOUGHT after re-reading your post .... WHO REGISTERED SARAH's birth ....

Cheers,  JM
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Offline Kylie B

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 10 October 11 05:36 BST (UK) »
Hi JM
I have seen this birth entry- and the other possible one to parents Amos and Mary in Berrima (they did have a child called Charles- clue or red herring??). But never had any idea of which one could be my Esther....both are a fair way from Narrabri...

You mentioned Maria's maiden name was Matthews....

Now talking of coincidences! The informant for Sarah's birth registration in 1887 was her father George, but witness present to the birth was....Mrs Matthews!! Could this be a relative of Esther's mother Maria??

Edith's birth was also registered by her father- witnesses that time (in 1882) were her father George Creighton, and Henry Stevens.

Hmmm- either a death for Esther to give some more info, or a handy parish record for her marriage wto George with some more info is really what I need isnt it??

Still pondering...Kylie


Offline majm

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 10 October 11 05:47 BST (UK) »
There's a possibility that the Mrs Matthews was one of the locals, experienced in helping neighbours with birthing....  If it is the same Mrs Matthews, then I doubt she was related to the George Creighton.  I have hardcopy info re a Mrs Matthews assisting with many deliveries and who was present when several of my forebears were born in the 1870s -1880s in those "back blocks"...   I will try to dig my "Matthews" file from within ummm.... a few/several/ummm  ::) ..... a number of folders  ;D in my fh filing cabinet. 

Cheers,  JM
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Offline Kylie B

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 07:07 BST (UK) »
Thanks JM
Always assumed Mrs Matthews was the local midwife- just got bit excited about the common surname.

So there are still 2 possible births for Esther- daughter of Amos and Mary or Thomas and Maria....

And still the issue of her apparantly being a minor when she married- without apparent parental consent. Surely a 15/16 year old girl could not have gotton away with claiming to be 21...and given she was honest on her children's births, someone must have been aware...

If we go the other way in history and try to find her later in life- any idea's there? She may have kept infant sarah with her when in custody in 1888, while her other children were fostered. But then what??  Her husband did not die for another 5 years- and he died in Queensland. Could she have followed him? Remarried after his death?

Still so many questions!!
Kylie

Offline majm

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 08:08 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Some thoughts....

Yes, it seemed likely to me that a Mrs Matthews was the local midwife, but from my notes re a Mrs Matthews I haven’t investigated much as to who her rellies were, except to eliminate her as a rellie of one of “my” lot.

George Creighton’s parents were Joseph Creighton and Sarah Hepworth (Qld BDM online #C1433 of 1893).  From his d.c. does it give any further information about his parents, his wife, or his children?  So perhaps Esther’s baby was named for George’s mum?  I am of course speculating, but I did notice SMH 9 Jan 1907 a Sarah Creighton aged 65 of Bourke St Sydney knocked down .... Any relation to George’s Mum perhaps? http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14795475?

From the NSW BDM online index Esther’s daughter Emily Jane was born in 1880.  You have her marriage as 7 July 1900 to Peter Baruffi, with her father noted as George Creighton, deceased and her mother as Dorothy Whalan....   So, are you sure this is the correct Emily Jane, and not some other lass with a deceased father named George.   If you are sure this is your Emily Jane, then I agree, it is worth considering that Dorothy seems to have been her foster mum, at the earliest from July 1888. Also that perhaps Emily had lost contact with her mum and dad.  So perhaps you need to find that Dorothy or at least her descendants.   

Hence :  From Emily’s 1900 mc  ....
Who gave consent for this lass not yet 21 to marry, bearing in mind her father was deceased?  Which church was the marriage at?  Who were the witnesses?  Where was Emily born?

Do you know where Emily and her husband settled? Did they have children, were any named Esther or George or Dorothy ?

For around $16 or so, you can get an official transcript of NSW BDM certificates, these contain all the information found on the official records, and can be sent by email as file attachments, usually arriving quicker than the NSW BDM official certificates.  As there’s only those two registrations for 1859 for Esther Taylor births, perhaps you may need so spend some pennies shortly, but if I were you then I would wait until hearing back about the elusive information from her m.c. 

I think the two boys found by Sue at the NAA WWI records could well be Esther’s, particularly if that is her daughter Emily citing her own mother as a Dorothy Whalan rather than as Esther Taylor... . (See #3 and #4, noting many of those who enlisted seem to have had troubles recalling their actual birth details, it was no where near as important an issue in those times as it is now.  In fact it was not an important piece of information even about myself in my youth, it has only been with the introduction of photo ID that the d o b has taken on a significant daily role)

Well, that’s my thoughts, I sincerely hope you are not put out by my expressing these ... 

Cheers,  JM
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Offline Kylie B

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 08:57 BST (UK) »
Hi JM
Not put out at all- all thoughts and ideas gratefully welcomed!!

Re Emily- I am pretty sure this is the right daughter. Her marriage cert lists her as aged 22 (so just out if born 1880) and it states she was born in Coonamble. Since I am not aware of any other Creighton families in Coonamble, I am pretty sure she is the right girl. And no consent needed if she told them she was 22. I have not been able to find a Dorothy Whalan.... Emily was married at the Independant Presbyterian Church in Phillip St Sydney by George Hay. Witnesses were Robert Walker and E Walker. Not sure where Emily and husband Peter settled- no sign of them in NSW but there are a lot of Baruffi's in WA so possibly there?

George's death in QLD confirms his wife as Esther Taylor and 5 children- no mention of any of them being deceased at the time of his death.  I have found a Miss E Creighton traveling as a passenger on board the Aramao from Brisbane to Sydney in Jul 1911- I suspect this may be Edith as she did not marry until Sept 1911 (but of course not sure). I have no other reason to think any of the family might have been in QLD with George- and havnt seen any sign of Esther in the QLD BDM indexes....

I am not sure when or how George Creighton arrived in Australia- but I have found him back in the UK, and his family remain there, so the Sarah Creighton you mentioned in 1907 seems unlikely to be related to George.

Cheers
Kylie

Offline majm

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Re: Esther CREIGHTON of Coonamble-criminal in 1880's & then what?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 11 October 11 09:23 BST (UK) »
I will have a good look for Emily's husband .... I think it would be unusual for an Italian to marry with Presbyterian rites.  I have some off line resources for Sydney circa 1900, so fingers crossed please !

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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