Phoebe ROSTRON nee BEVAN

[chezza60]

Hi Jm,

I have Phoebe's death cert in front of me & yes her name was Phoebe Constance Rostron.

Regards Chezza

[majm]

Still a big question mark as to where Phoebe Rosa's daughter came from?

Hi there,

Sorry for repeating myself, but basically, Phoebe provided the information as to when and where she was born when she was interviewed prior to her marriage to George.  The info on the mc that you have re that marriage is incomplete.  This is NOT unusual because basically the NSW BDM Registrar General's office received ONLY a summary at that time.  In 1912 the NSW BDM Reg Gen's office commenced to reconcile their own records with the more detailed records held in each of the many churches throughout NSW.  They have not ever completed that task, and it is likely that the task was interupted by the numbers of their clerks who enlisted for WWI, and thus perhaps it was not re-commenced after WWI. Only some of the marriages conducted in NSW in the years 1856-1895 have ever been reconciled by the NSW BDM Reg General's officers, and those that have are from various Sydney locations.  Many Sydney ones have not yet been reconciled, most rural/regional ones have not yet been reconciled.   

The information that Phoebe provided at the time of her marriage includes when and where she was born.  The information she provided was recorded by the clergyman who married her to George.  That information is still findable, as it was and still is a requirement of the various denominations church laws as well as the NSW civil laws that the registers must not be destroyed.

Simply put, for you to find out what information Phoebe and George provided the clergyman, you will need to undertake offline research either personally or by seeking contact with either the local church or the local family history group for the districts in and around Nymagee for them to access those local parish records for the C of E at Nymagee.   

The thread I did up re the elusive blanks on NSW marriage certs explains how I have overcome the apparent brickwalls on those 1856-1895 NSW marriage certs.   

Once you have obtained the information that Phoebe provided to the clergyman, then you can set about validating that information, because, afterall, Phoebe would be relaying information that her Mum provided her.   There was not any organisation in those times that actually was established specifically with the responsibility to set about to check up on the accuracy of the information.  People's word and handshake were significant ways to demonstrate their own truthfulness, particularly when speaking with a clergyman regarding their intent to marry. 

Cheers,  JM

[chezza60]

Thankyou JM,
 I will try to contact a family research centre in Nymagee or near by.

Thankyou again

Chezza

[judb]

One has to wonder whether Rosa was entirely truthful about the birthplace of Phoebe.  

Going further back with the BEVAN family:

Familysearch has these baptisms, all with parents David and Jane BEVAN (we know, from 1851 census  that James BEVAN's father was Henry BEVAN, b Penard, Glamorganer and Henry's mother's name was Jane BEVAN). All baptisms at Pennard, Gamorgan, Wales  These are all extracted entries so should be reliable.

ELINOR BEVAN -  Christening: 14 MAR 1815
JANE BEVAN  Christening: 16 APR 1816
HENRY LAYS BEVAN  Christening: 31 DEC 1817
JAMES SEYS BEVAN  Christening: 28 MAR 1821
CAROLINE BEVAN - Christening: 28 MAR 1821

Hmm - is this actually the  James who came to Australia?  What age is given for him on the marriage cert with Rosa? He would only have been 62 at the time of the 1883 marriage which may have been a regularisation of a long-time relationship.

Briton Ferry and Neath are almost the same place and are port towns for South Wales - perhaps James was a seaman??

I see what would appear to be some of the above family in 1841 in Briton Ferry, remembering ages in 1841 were rounded down.  So it looks as though James may have already left
Jane BEVAN 50 publican
Henry BEVAN   20
Caroline BEVAN 20
Ann BEVAN   15   

Judith



Wondering if either 'Lays' or 'Seys' could be a mistranscription given the long 'S' in use at the time?  

Judith

[Dundee]

Hi Judith,

That James would be the uncle of Rosa's husband.  The Henry with Jane, Caroline and Ann in 1841 is James's father.

Debra 

[chezza60]

Hi Judith,

James Seys Bevan was 41, Rosa was 43. On there mc in 1883
The Seys S does look like a S.

[judb]

Oh, ok  - I was a bit excited there for a minute!! 

[chezza60]

Hi Judith,

Would you think that maybe James & Caroline were twins.

Also would you have a date for David & Janes marriage, also Janes maiden name.

Thankyou so much for all the info you have given me so far.

Cheers Chezza

[judb]

It's possible that they were twins but it was not uncommon to baptise more than one child on the same day.

Now to hunt for David and Jane's marriage, or Jane's surname.  Jane is born abt 1790, birthplace Swansea (from census data). In 1841 she is  a publican in Briton Ferry,  and in 1851 with her son Henry who has the Mariners' Arms in Briton Ferry.

Unfortunately, in terms of searching, BEVAN is a common surname in Wales.  It would seem from the census info that David is already dead by 1841.  Civil registration only began in September qr 1837 in England and Wales and between 1837 and 1841 there are 7 David BEVAN deaths in Glamorgan, and he may have died well before then anyway, so it won't be possible to find his death that way.

Familysearch does not show a marriage that is likely to be them.  I would be guessing to say that there is a possibility of her surname being SEYS as this name is used for her child and for his nephew, however we have no way of proving that.

Familysearch shows no record of a Jane Seys birth at the appropriate time/place either.  Keep in mind that the birthplace given as Swansea may include districts of Swansea.  The baptisms of the children are at Pennard which is on the Gower peninsula, on the outskirts of Swansea..  There is a pic of the church here
http://www.pennard-area-local-history.co.uk/pennard/pennard_parish_registers.htm

The actual registers may give some further information for you.  There are some people who will do lookups here:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~walesle/gla/chrec.htm

Cheers, Judith