JOHN HOWELL

[Morganllan]

Topics merged to avoid duplication of effort 

Please see reply #11 about purchase of certificates from GRO

[judy55]

 Hi J Henry
Today, I googled  John Howell and found your post.  John is my GG Grandfather too.
There is very limited information regarding John as far as immigration. Having said that, I was told some years ago that John and a friend came to Australia on a ship named "Blackswan" or Black Swan" and he was from Wales. I have found a ship by that name but no record of John Howell as a passenger. 

Where do you fit in Howell/Ferrier Family? 
I'm from Mary Ann Howell (1869-1965).
I have only just received John's death certificate, a little disappointed there was not more info regarding birth but at least confirmation on parents.
Hope to catch up with you
jampar55
 

[judy55]

Have you got the 41 census details

John Howell 35 butcher
Ann 25
John 4
Mary Ann 2
Richard Walters 20 butcher
David Walters 15
Mary Walters 14
Eliza Walters 12
Hannah Thomas 25 female servant
all born in county
Orange Street Swansea
HO107 1426/4/8/9

Thank you isobelruss!!  I think I had just about shoe boxed all John Howell census  but forgot to do the variants on surname. After coming across this today, this one is very promising.
Thank you.
  jampar55

[Morganllan]

Hello 

John's father was a Pattern Maker or Wheelwright according to certificates so caution is needed with the John Howell who was a Swansea butcher in 1841 census.

However the Howell/Walter combination is a possibility, provided that John's mother's maiden name was Walter.

Perhaps the 1838 birth certificate would help clarify matters.

Kind regards
Morgan

[judy55]

Hello 

John's father was a Pattern Maker or Wheelwright according to certificates so caution is needed with the John Howell who was a Swansea butcher in 1841 census.

Kind regards
Morgan

I agree with caution!!  Might not have wanted to follow in dad's footsteps. He ended up  a publican in outback NSW.  Died aged 47 + or - a year.

Having followed replies #11 and #21  by yourself and reply #2 from Trish I have looked at both IGI and FreeBMD. 

IGI for marriage 
x 2 for same date and persons and 2 districts of Glamorgan  and John has an "s" on end of Howell. Districts being "Llanelly" and "Swansea". 

The time frame of birth is the question!!!    It has been stated 1838 or 1840, on freebmd  there is a total of five births for John Howell from :-

Dec      1838       26 - 401  Swansea  (your reply #11)
March  1838       26 - 566   Narberth
March  1839       26 - 537   Llanelly
March  1839       26 - 593   Narberth
June    1840       26 - 473   Swansea

After all of that I am    on which one to go for!!    Are there five year searches at GRO?   

John's death certificate definitely states Swansea and his mothers surname states "Walters"
Any other advice greatly received to keep checking until the right one shows up.
Thanks
Judy55

[Morganllan]

Hello 

I would think that Narberth is unlikely, and Llanelly less likely than Swansea. Not sure about GRO searches, but Llanelly/Carmarthen do +/- 2 years either side of year specified. Not sure about Swansea, but worth sending an email to check whether this is the right one.

If you specify Ann Walters as mother when ordering from register office or GRO (don't quote reference number, but just name and district/year), they won't send it if it doesn't match. Register Offices don't use the GRO reference number anyway.

Kind Regards
Morgan

[judy55]

Hello 
 
If you specify Ann Walters as mother when ordering from register office or GRO (don't quote reference number, but just name and district/year), they won't send it if it doesn't match. Register Offices don't use the GRO reference number anyway.

Kind Regards
Morgan

Thanks Morgan. That's the way I was thinking of going (ie. not quoting reference no.)  
I wondered though, whether to quote father, as sometimes it's only father mentioned!!

Then there is a lot of John Howell's!!!

Have not been able to find a census in 1841 where John Howell snr is listed as wheelwright.....there are a lot of farmers!!

However, I did find a Charlotte Howell , I think 1851 census with John Howell listed as grand son. Perhaps grabbing at straws, but one of John's daughters was named Charlotte.

 Thanks again. 
Judy55

[elenaH]

Hello Judy,

I've read your messages on Rootchat.

Sorry, have you managed to get a Birth Certificate to John Howell, born Oct-Dec 1838?

John Howell/s  is very difficult to find, there were no wheelwrights by the name of John Howell/s , or Howell in Swansea in 1828 and  1858 ( according to Slaters Directory 1858-1859 http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Swansea/slaters-swansea.html and 1822-1823 Pigott's directory http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Swansea/pigot.1822.html) .

I saw a photocopy of John's and Ann's marriage record, at least we know that they were literate and lived at that moment in Swansea , but that is all...

 There was one John Howells , wheelwright, timber merchant and coach builder later in 1880s in Cardiff, but that is the closest wheelwright by the name of John Howells I can find in Glamorgan. I hope he was a relative of John Howell/Howells from Swansea...

None of the 1841, 1851 census papers show  John Howell/s  as a wheelwright in Swansea or anywhere else in Glamorgan or even Wales for that matter... Though John Howells, the wheelwright is mentioned as a father of a groom in the marriage record for George Howell , also a wheelwright, 17 Sept 1837, St Mary the Virgin, Eccles,  Pendelton Lancashire England to Elizabeth Ogden...But it is too far away from Wales...
Have you found more information about Howells' since your last post?
Thank you
Elena   

[Morganllan]

IGI has a Submitted Marriage Record;
John HOWELL
Ann WALTERS
25 October 1831, Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

Hopefully someone can confirm this.

Trish

Marriage of John Howell, bachelor, and Ann Walters, spinster, on 25 Oct 1831, in the Parish of Swansea. Married by Banns, both of the Parish, in the presence of  James Evans and William Davies. Both Bride and Groom signed the register.

P.S. Elena - Welcome to Rootschat!