John Ellis Jones of Coed-talon or Leeswood (lookup request)

[robert186]

Hi, I'm hoping someone might be able to help me track down my ancestor John Ellis Jones (b. abt 1845, Coed-talon or Leeswood, Flintshire-d. 15 Jun 1892, Liverpool). I have census returns for him as far back as 1871 but now want to go further back. Here are the details of his family which I've ascertained so far:

John Ellis Jones (abt 1845, Flintshire-1892, Liverpool)

Spouse (married 22 Jan 1866, Liverpool):
Hannah R Roberts (15 Nov 1848, Mertyn/Whitford, Flintshire-after 1911 Liverpool?)

Children:
Hugh L Jones (1867, Whitford, Flintshire)
Harriet Elizabeth Jones (1968, Bootle)
Robert Thomas Jones (1871, Preston, Lancashire)
John Owen Jones (23 Aug 1873, Roscommon, Ireland)
Margaret Anne Jones (30 Jul 1875, Roscommon, Ireland)
William Arthur Jones (9 Aug 1877, Sligo, Ireland)
Hannah R Jones (abt 1881, Llanfair Fechan, Caernarvonshire)
David Lloyd Jones (31 Mar 1885, Everton, Lancashire)
Herbert E Jones (abt 1887, Liverpool)
George E Jones (abt 1890, Liverpool)

As you can tell from his children's birthplaces, John moved around a lot due to his job as a wood turner/foreman sawyer. He and his family lived at the following addresses between 1871 and 1891

1871: 45 Aberdeen Street, Preston, Lancashire, England
1881: Llanfair Fechan, Caernarvonshire, Wales
1891: 18 Brae Street, West Derby, Lancashire, England

Finding him on earlier census returns has proved extremely difficult so far. The only clues I have is the fact that he's living with a brother called Robert Jones in 1871, who was apparently born in 1851 in Liverpool (suggesting his family might be living there on that census), and his marriage certificate which states that his father was also named Robert Jones and an iron moulder. I've found a number of census records which turned out to be wrong, including one family (living in Bychton in 1851, Whitford, 1861) which featured a John E Jones (b. abt 1848, Mostyn/Whitford) whose father was an iron moulder named Robert Jones, but this turned out to be just a coincidence as I found the John from this census in the 1881 census with a different family and occupation to my ancestor.

The most promising lead I've got is an 1841 census (before John was born) which might feature his father Robert. From later census returns I guessed his father would probably be living in Coed-talon or Leeswood in 1841, and when  browsing it manually I did find a Robrt Jones (b. abt 1781) who is described as an 'iron melter,' which sounds pretty close, but I haven't found him in 1851 so can't say for certain whether he's the man I'm looking for.

Any help in finding pre-1871 records (census or baptism records) for John would be hugely appreciated, please let me know if you want any more information.

Regards,
Rob

[groom]

Have you looked at this one?

1851

 HO107; Piece: 2175; Folio: 509; Page: 7
Birkenhead ,Cheshire


Robert Jones   36  Blacksmith     Mold Flintshire
Mary Jones   33                        Chellaston, Cheshire
John Jones   7                          Mold Flintshire
William Jones   1                          Birkenhead

Jan

[robert186]

Thanks, this one looks promising but I can you fimd the same family in 1841 and 1861? If we could that would help determine whether they're the ones we're looking for or not.

[panicp]

Hi Rob,

I wonder if you might be related to my family. My great-grandfather was Jonathon Jones (1878-1929) and lived in Coed-Talon and lived at Liverpool house. He married a woman called Elizabeth Bellis. I believe he also owned quite a lot of land around there too. His father was William Jones (b1848), his grandfather was another Jonathon Jones (b 1816) and his great-grandfather was John Jones (c. 1780's). Most of the family come from Mold though I think.

I have attached a copy of our family tree as complete as we have it. Perhaps we are distantly related?

Cheers

Dave

PS. Unfortunately, the XLS file is too large and will not let me attach. Will happily email this to you if you think it might be useful? Will await your reply. Cheers.

[robert186]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply, from what you say it's possible we might be distantly related, as even though Jones is a very common name Coed-Talon is a very small community.

From what I know about my side, if we are related our most recent common ancestor would have to be John Jones (b. c. 1780s), who may have been the father of my g-g-g-grandfather Robert Jones (b. ca. 1820) the iron moulder, father of John Ellis Jones (b. c. 1845 - d. 1892). Do you have any records relating to John Jones's children (aside from Jonathan Jones) baptism or marriage records perhaps?

[despair]

This looks reasonable:-

1851  2177  489  39

1861  4273  14  40

(No father present in either case,elsewhere in 1851,deceased by 1861)

Regards
Roger

[ieland]

Dave/Panicp,
I'd be interested to see your family tree - we;re related through my great grandmother - Eliza Jane Jones (1882-1960) - who was sister of Jonathon Jones (1878-1929).
Dan

[Jo Harding]

This one might fit in with the details you have given.

1851 Liverpool Carver buildings, off Hornby St.

Harriet Jones, Head, married, age 29, No Business-wife of Moulder, born Llanarmon, Wales.
Jno Jones, son, age 6, single, scholar, born Mold.
Thomas Jones, son, single, age 3, scholar, born Liverpool.
Robert Jones, son, age , scholar, born Liverpool.

I think Robert's age is something months but it is impossible to decipher it.

I think this is the first census reference given by Despair previously.

What makes this a possibility is the husband's occupation shown, plus the age of Robert Jones, born Liverpool.

There is a marriage in Hope, St Cynfarch, 9 December 1844, Robert Jones to Harriet Foulkes. I have checked this out and it isn't the right one. I noticed there is a marriage registered in Holywell RD in 1843 where there is a Robert Jones and Harriet Ellis in the list of names.

I do wonder if his mother's maiden name was Ellis in view of his middle name.

Jo.