Did David Hubbard marry Sarah or Susannah or both?

[alllegs]

Hi everyone....

I'm really confused once again!!

I have this from the 1871 census....
David Hubbard Head 32 coal dealer born Yarwell.
Sarah Hubbard wife 28 born Nassington
Edward son 11
Hannah dau 8
Charles son 7
David son 5
William son 3
Rose dau 1
(all kids born in Nassington except William and Rose who were born in Yarwell)

In the 1881.....
David HUBBARD   Head   M   Male   43   Yarwell, Northampton, England   Agricultural Labourer     
 Susannah HUBBARD   Wife   M   Female   40   Nassington, Northampton, England   Agricultural Labourer Wife     
 Hannah HUBBARD   Daur   U   Female   20   Nassington, Northampton, England   Dressmaker     
 Charles HUBBARD   Son   U   Male   17   Nassington, Northampton, England   Agricultural Labourer     
 David HUBBARD   Son   U   Male   15   Nassington, Northampton, England   Agricultural Labourer     
 William HUBBARD   Son   U   Male   13   Yarwell, Northampton, England   Agricultural Labourer     
 Rosina HUBBARD   Daur   U   Female   11   Yarwell, Northampton, England   Scholar     
 Sarah Ann HUBBARD   Daur      Female   10   Yarwell, Northampton, England   Scholar     
 John Henry HUBBARD   Son      Male   8   Yarwell, Northampton, England   Scholar     
 Betsy HUBBARD   Daur      Female   6   Yarwell, Northampton, England   Scholar     
 Joseph HUBBARD   Son      Male   3   Yarwell, Northampton, England   Infant     
 Frederick HUBBARD   Son      Male   1   Chesterton, Huntingdon, England   Infant     
 Thomas WADWELL   Lodger   U   Male   23   Water Newton, Huntingdon, England   Brickmaker 


So my question is.......Did David marry both Sarah and Susannah or was it a mistranscription?

I have found a marriage reference for Dec 1/4 1858 for David Hubbard and Sarah Palmer, but can't find anything for Susannah.

My gran's cousin in Canada is certain that Susannah is the mother of all the children but I think Sarah is our direct ancestor and Susannah was a 2nd marriage....?

Can any one help or find any fact to prove or disprove my theory?

Thanks in advance
Love
Legs
xxxxx

[Valda]

1861 census RG9 963 folio 51 Yarwell  Northamptonshire   
David Hubbard 1809  Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Head married Cottager of 16 acres
Fanny Hubbard 1811  Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Wife Married
David Hubbard 1839  Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Son Unmarried Ag Lab   
Jane Hubbard 1842  Yarwell, Northamptonshire,  Daughter Unmarried
Thomas Hubbard 1845  Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Son Unmarried Ag Lab
Henry Hubbard 1858  Yarwell, Northamptonshire, Son 

No other David Hubbards on the 1861 census that would fit. No evidence on later censuses there were two David Hubbards born around the same time in Yarwell.

The registration district covering Yarwell is Oundle
From FreeBMD
Marriages Mar 1863
HUBBARD  David     Oundle  3B 274
No cross reference in FreeBMD to any other names

If Sarah and Susan/nah (it varies between Susan and Susannah on censuses) are the same woman and the 1871 census is incorrect, that perhaps leaves you with the possibility that the eldest child (Edward) may not have had his birth registered as Hubbard and that he was David's wife's son pre her marriage, whilst Hannah arrived very close to the event. (You would have to purchase a certificate to be sure of her mother's full name).

As a long shot on the 1861 census there is in the house of William Kirby of Nassington, his daughter Susanah (along with two other daughters and two sons) born circa 1843 Nassington and a grandson Edward Kirby born Nassington circa 1860. No trace of Edward Kirby on the 1871 census but then he could just have easily died or gained some other surname. This is a very long shot until proven or disproven - it is just supposition without any evidence to back it.

From FreeBMD
Births Dec 1860
KIRBY  Edward     Oundle  3b 197

Have you found a birth registration for an Edward Hubbard at the same time in Oundle?

At this point with the information from the 1861 census I can't see how the 1858 marriage still stands. I can find no Edward Hubbard born circa 1860 Nassington on the 1861 census or a Susan/nah or Sarah his mother.

Something to think about and the only way I can reconcile the evidence of the 1861 census with the subsequent censuses whether the Kirby theory fits or not - just an added bonus if it does.

Regards
Valda
 

[alllegs]

Thank you very much Valda,

Thats blown my theory out of the water hasn't it!!  Perhaps my Gran's cousin is right, I'm sure he mentioned the Kirby's...hmmmmmm!

Do you think that the 1871 census with Sarah as the wife is a mistranscription then?

The Hubbard family you found on the 1861 is definately mine, i'm a bit confused about David senior's wife however.....Fanny/Frances...?  Another mistranscription...?

As for Edward, I knew nothing about him until someone on here found him in a census as Edward Hubbard, son of David and Sarah....hmmmmm.......Why do my lot confuse me so much!!

Thank you again, I'll work on that lot and get back to my cousins and see what they say!

Love
Legs
xxxx

[Valda]

Fanny is the standard pet name for Frances. She is Frances on the 1871 census. Both are often used interchangeably.

If the 1858 marriage is incorrect (have you purchased the certificate) you have no proof the 1871 census was not a misenumeration (not a mistranscription - the transcription is a correct copy of what the enumerator wrote).

The ball is in your court to prove David actually had two wives and the first was called Sarah.

The quickest way to check is to purchase one of the older children's birth certificates and the marriage certificate for the marriage in 1863 in Oudle.

Regards
Valda

[alllegs]

Thank you again Valda,

I have emailed all you have said to my cousins to see what they say....

I personally don't have any certificates relating to this family, but my cousin in Canada does.....I'm not sure what though as I only found him yesterday!

Being a student I'm unable to afford any more certificates at present but I'll add them to my never ending to buy list!

I think I will ring Oundle on Monday and ask them if they can confirm the spouse of the David married in 1863.  I can't remember where the David Hubbard/Sarah Palmer (1958) marriage took place but I'll try to contact the relevant GRO too.  I will also try and locate a birth cert for one ot the older children. 

I still can't understand why Sarah shows on the 1871 census and Susannah on the 1881..........oh well....

Thank you again
Love
Legs.
xxxxx

[Valda]

Census enumerators knocked on doors and took down what they were told in their notebooks. They then went home and transferred their notes into the census enumerators book. Plenty of scope for errors - mishearing with strong local accents tired enumerators etc.
Regards
Valda

[seahall]

Hi Legs

To add to Valda

The index that is on Ancestry.com for Northamptonshire is also not totally accurate either so maybe looking at the original image would be a way of proving it has been noted correctly.

Cheers Sandy

[alllegs]

Thank you both,

As I said before I think the only way to crack this is by ringing Oundle GRO to ask for a confirmation and/or purchasing relevant certificates....

Will track down my cousins first and see what they think.

Love
Legs
xxxx

[seahall]

Hi Legs

This web page may be of help to you later when you have confirmed the details of the marriage you require.

http://www.stevejgarton.co.uk/NT.htm

Be aware that some Registry Offices will only look at a marriage if you know both partners names and the Church/Registry Office/Non-Conformity Venue.

Cheers Sandy