Author Topic: # 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia  (Read 35323 times)

Offline majm

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Re: #32 Reply summary P J HART & M Corcoran NSW Australia
« Reply #54 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 04:30 GMT (UK) »
(Patrick) James HART and Margaret Corcoran 
Patrick
b. 1824 Ireland
d.
]Margaret
b. 1828 Ireland
bur. 14 Nov. 1891 Narrandera NSW
m. 1853 Victoria  = cannot find marriage entry

Tidying up my desk, so I am adding the following which I don't recall being provided on this thread....

The NSW BDM online index has a death registration for a Margaret HART, given names of her parents indexed as Patrick and Margaret, registered in the Narrandera District in 1891, and the ref is #10031. 

I apologise if I am duplicating info already provided.   May I ask .... how old was the deceased as per that dc? , and was she noted as the wife of Patrick Hart, and the daughter of Patrick Corcoran .... 

Cheers,  JM
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Offline May Hem

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Re: # 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia
« Reply #55 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 04:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jamison

I meant maybe the genealogist was a 'convict' for charging for (maybe) fraudulent information! It is a common saying here.

Re death certificate misinformation - yes I agree - relatives often were not aware of the facts, though it was certified by Mary Ellen Owens, daughter, Binya(Bynya) via Whitton. Relatives often seem to have little information about their other relatives, especially in those times. I have estimated MCH's birth date as 1808 in Ireland, as her stated age at death in 1891 was 83 years. Have you searched the Irish files in terms of her departure?
I though we were searching for Margaret Corcoran who married a Hart?
From 1872 MCH was featuring as present on birth certificates of MAH's children which is why I gathered something had happened to Patrick her husband.
Did you check the Victorian Watch-House files for information on the Patrick Hart prisoner in 1877.He may be buried in the prison or nearby.

It has always been close family knowledge that Richard and Patrick were brothers,  the LLoyds were family friends until all their deaths in the mid 1900's.

Re Debra's comments -  I'm searching my files to see if I can find any more written confirmation of the relationship between Richard and Patrick.
The relationships certainly did stand, it is just a matter of finding and correcting the information I gave you, it seems. I need to check with others.

Kind regards
MayHem

Offline May Hem

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Re: # 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia
« Reply #56 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 05:17 GMT (UK) »
Apropos of your query re Margaret Hart, d 1891, Narrandera- yes, the document states that she was the wife of James Hart, b. Ireland, not known how long in Australian colonies, wife of James Hart,Elizabeth 34 years, Ellen Mary 31 years, 1 female decd (Mary Ann), father Patrick Corking,this was crossed out and replaced in writing by CORCORAN, mother Margaret Macklin. 83 yrs of age, so I estimate a birth age of 1808.

Maybe we should concentrate on searching James (Patrick) Hart in official documents. I know he was called Patrick because in one of the documents his name was given as Patherick, so I could 'see' his Irish accent.

I have just checked the genealogist's letter once more,  she states that in the Victorian Pioneers Index there were no children after Mary Ann born to Patrick and and Margaret (nee Corkern/Corcoran).

 She also noted children being born being born to a Patrick and Margaret HART (nee Danaher) from 1859, they lived in the Gisborne area. I happened to have a copy of their marriage registration - m 10 November 1956 St Francis Church Melbourne, both born in Ireland, his father was Patrick Hart and his mother was Margaret Wall. Not the ones we are seeking.    MayHem

Offline Dundee

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Re: # 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia
« Reply #57 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 06:04 GMT (UK) »
Here are some links to the convict records to make it a little easier:

Margaret and Ann Corcoran's indent (record goes across 2 pages, use the arrow at the top to go to the second)
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON15-1-7,364,16,L,80

Margaret's conduct record, Ann's is on the next page
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON41-1-30,269,57,L,80

Debra  :)



Offline majm

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Re: # 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 07:52 GMT (UK) »
Margaret Hart, d 1891, Narrandera- yes, the document states that she was the wife of James Hart, b. Ireland, not known how long in Australian colonies, wife of James Hart,Elizabeth 34 years, Ellen Mary 31 years, 1 female decd (Mary Ann), father Patrick Corking,this was crossed out and replaced in writing by CORCORAN, mother Margaret Macklin. 83 yrs of age, so I estimate a birth age of 1808.

Maybe we should concentrate on searching James (Patrick) Hart in official documents. I know he was called Patrick because in one of the documents his name was given as Patherick, so I could 'see' his Irish accent.

May I please ask what document causes you to consider that James HART and Patrick/Patherick HART is ONE person?

Hi Jamison

I meant maybe the genealogist was a 'convict' for charging for (maybe) fraudulent information! It is a common saying here.

Re death certificate misinformation - yes I agree - relatives often were not aware of the facts, though it was certified by Mary Ellen Owens, daughter, Binya(Bynya) via Whitton.
 

I realise that Mary Ellen OWENS, (Margaret's daughter) and the informant on Margaret's d.c. may well NOT have recalled her own father's given name, IF he had been lost to the family from Mary Ellen's childhood, BUT .... James as an alternative to Patrick seems to be somewhat a stretch "too far"....

As an aside, I have not ever heard of genealogists being considered as 'convict' for any of the fees they charge, with or without supplying 'fraudulent' info....

Anyways, May Hem, here's some links to some of the previous RChatter threads re Margaret Corcoran's family :

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498551.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,556906.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,550314.20.html

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline May Hem

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Re: # 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia
« Reply #60 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 08:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi MAJM

It was a Aussie joke re the convicts...........

I am only discussing Mary Ann Hart and her mother Margaret(Corcoran/Corkens/Corking) and(James) Patrick Hart, who are my ancestors.
This Hart family lived variously between Inglewood and Longwood in northern Victoria, and were not citydwellers. I doubt if they were educated
They were poor farmers and labourers. Maybe they were virtually illiterate.
We have no proof but we suspect that because of their accents their names were sometimes misspelt.

MAH was b. 12 September 1856, at Longwood, in the District of Avenel, her parents are named as Pathrick Hart, labourer, age 32 from Ireland, married in 1853, Victoria, her mother is named as Margaret Hart, formerly Corkens, aged 28, from Ireland, signed Patherick Hart, father, Longwood  The "H" and "E" have been crossed out, reducing the signature to Patrick.
His wife's death certificate gave his name as James Hart. I think probably there were a lot of aliases in those days, because I noticed on the Tasmanian Govt convict link given by Debra that aliases are also requested.

Hi Debra

You have done a magnificent job, digitising records has certainly made such a difference. Our family research stretches back to the days of letters.
You have given me a big headache (joke!) because now I will have reassess what is correct on the family tree. Just as we had it all fitting in perfectl

One thing which is troubling me about our Margaret Corkerns, Corcoran, Corking, Hart is her age at death - MAH died aged 33 yrs, so her mother would have been
aged 50 when she gave birth to MAH. As I have a only transcript I now wonder whether her age was more likely to be 63yrs at death, giving her a birth date of
1828. If so, then what do I make of that? Any ideas?

kind regards
MayHem

Offline majm

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Re: Patrick James HART & Margaret Corcoran Vic. Australia
« Reply #61 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 09:07 GMT (UK) »
I think if you go back through this thread you will find that Jamison has Mary Ann's birth certificate.  It should give detailed information about her parents, including their then ages.

So l bought the bc online to this entry !!!


Hello Jamison,
No Marriage of a Patrick HART to a  Margaret CORCORAN.

Mary HART b 1856 Longwood- Patrick HART and Margaret CORKERN # 9560

Regards
Alison



Info. to this birth

Mary Ann HART

b. 12 Sept. 1856 Longwood Victroria

Father

Patrick HART  - Labouror - aged 32 - born in Ireland

married 1853 Victoria - children 1 living & 1 dead (cannot find marriage or children)

Mother

Margaret CORKER(A)N - aged 28 - born in Ireland


Jamison

This was as a result of Sue's post that Merlin confirmed here:

Not sure why I see MARY ANN ???
 Same everything else!

 HART Mary Ann

Father Patrick
Mother Margaret CORKERN
Birth Place LONGWOOD
Year 1856
Reg 9560


Sue,

In the index it is exactly as you have above  :)
Haven't a clue where Alison got the 'Ellen' from  ???

So, Margaret was 28 when her daughter Mary Ann was born in 1856.....

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline May Hem

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Re: # 32 Reply summary of family = HART P J & Corcoran M NSW Australia
« Reply #62 on: Tuesday 06 March 12 09:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi JM

Thank you for that information re Margaret Corcoran's age at marriage, it is a more likely age.

MayHem