O'Neills

[andferdav]

I am trying to find any information about the O'Neill family who were in Carlisle from certainly 1811, when John was born there.
Mother of the family was Cathrine (1841 census shows no e in the middle) she was living in Carlisle with her son John (age 30 in 1841), daughter Cathrine (born about 1818) son Henry (born c.1820) and granddaughter Mary (9 months illegit daughter of Cathrine 2) and brother-in-law (guess he is, though 1851 census shows him as brother to Cathrine 2, which is not possible?) Hugh, age 48, born Ireland.
With the gap in ages between John and Cathrine 2 there are probably other children I cannot find.

Cathrine 1 does not show on the 1851 census, so I presume that she died between 1841 & 51, one possible death on freebmd jun 1844 carlisle.

I am guessing that Cathrine 1 was born in Ireland and married her husband there, but it is also quite possible that she was from Carlisle and he came over from Ireland. No idea what his name was as he was not on the scene in 1841, and I can't find any births of the children on IGI.
I am assuming that Hugh was his younger brother, but as above he may not have been.

Part of the family moved east to near Gateshead and that's the connection to my husband via yet another Catherine, daughter of Henry.

I am completely stuck as I've no idea where in Ireland Hugh and presumably his brother came from.
ANY help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Andrea

[emmsthheight]

Hi Andrea

Have you got a marraige cetificate for any of the offspring which would give a name for the father unless you're very unlucky.

Then it would be easier to find a marriage here or in Ireland as there are a fair few O'Neils at the best of times!

Best wishes

Emms

[emmsthheight]

Hi again Andrea

What did 1841 say about birth?  Did it give I or S for Ireland or Scotland or in or out of county?

Emms

[andferdav]

Thank you.

I have a copy of the 1841 census and can see there is a mark in the column Scotland etc. but cannot make out if it is an S or an I. It looks more like an f, but is the same as for Hugh, who I know from a later census was born in Ireland. Thank you!

I don't have the marriage certificates for any of Cathrine's children, but that it a great idea - Henry would probably be best, at least I know he got married.
John I found with a daughter in later censuses, but never a wife, and Cathrine 2 had possibly 7 children who all seem to be illegitimate! On one census she appears as Catherine Montgomery, but there is no Mr Montgomery on it and I can't find a marriage on freebmd.

Thanks for the tips, I just got stuck and couldn't even think of how to get any further.

[andferdav]

AAARGH.
The only marriage for a Henry O'Neill in Carlisle on freebmd has an illegible page number. His wife Margaret was born in Scotland, so it's possible they married there any way.

[emmsthheight]

Hi

If you can narrow down the time period I'll see what I can see in the registers for Carlisle.

In fact if I had the quarter for the illegible page number I could check that too.

If you haven't found them next time I go I'll have a look.

Best wishes

Emms

[andferdav]

Emms

Many thanks.  The only marriage I can see on freebmd for a Henry O'Neill is Henry O'Neil (1 L) in q. ending mar 1843. The timing is probably right, the first son John (O'Neale) was born in q.e. jun 1843 in Carlisle, so if it is my Henry it must have been a shotgun wedding - at least he got married, unlike his sister.

His wife was Margaret - I think she might have been Irving, but it is tentative - a nephew Hugh Irving was with them on one census and with her sister(?) Agnes Wilson on another also as nephew, so I am guessing that he was the son of their brother. Henry & Margaret's 1st daughter was Agnes so it feels right.
On that thinking - Henry had an older brother John, and his first child was John, I wonder if Catherine 1's husband was John - I think it's an Irish tradition to name children after grandparents in a particular order.

Thanks again
Andrea

[emmsthheight]

Hi

You're welcome!

I'll see what I see.

Of course if they were just outside town rather than in it, it might be another ball game, but we'll see!

Best wishes

Emms 

[andferdav]

Census shows the O'Neill family living in Botchergate in 1841 - I guess that marriages tend to take place where the girl lives though, so that might not be much help. In 1851 Henry and Margaret were living in English St. His sister Catherine (O'Neal) was still in Botchergate in 1861 and 1871.

Andrea