O'Neills

[andferdav]

I am trying to find any information about the O'Neill family who were in Carlisle from certainly 1811, when John was born there.
Mother of the family was Cathrine (1841 census shows no e in the middle) she was living in Carlisle with her son John (age 30 in 1841), daughter Cathrine (born about 1818) son Henry (born c.1820) and granddaughter Mary (9 months illegit daughter of Cathrine 2) and brother-in-law (guess he is, though 1851 census shows him as brother to Cathrine 2, which is not possible?) Hugh, age 48, born Ireland.
With the gap in ages between John and Cathrine 2 there are probably other children I cannot find.

Cathrine 1 does not show on the 1851 census, so I presume that she died between 1841 & 51, one possible death on freebmd jun 1844 carlisle.

I am guessing that Cathrine 1 was born in Ireland and married her husband there, but it is also quite possible that she was from Carlisle and he came over from Ireland. No idea what his name was as he was not on the scene in 1841, and I can't find any births of the children on IGI.
I am assuming that Hugh was his younger brother, but as above he may not have been.

Part of the family moved east to near Gateshead and that's the connection to my husband via yet another Catherine, daughter of Henry.

I am completely stuck as I've no idea where in Ireland Hugh and presumably his brother came from.
ANY help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Andrea

[Nayra]

Hello - I am also looking for information on the O'Neills. My great great grandfather was Henry O'Neill, his son John was my great grandfather and his daughter Alice was my grandmother.  I have found that they lived in Winlaton (County Durham) for several years at Commercial Square as per censuses I have found recently.  I am interested in finding out more about Cathrine O'Neill who is shown on the 1841 census.  I was told by my mother who recently passed away that we had Irish ancestors and am interested in finding out more about them.

[andferdav]

Aargh, I typed a really long reply to you and then it just disappeared 

We definitely have a match. I have not looked at the O'Neills in ages as I just could not get any further back. The census indicated they came from Ireland, but not where.

My husband is John Francis Ferguson (1952) son of Patricia Louise Devlin (1922-2005)
daughter of Frank Devlin (1892)
son of Catherine O'Neill (c.1860-1951)
she was the daughter of Henry O'Neil(l) (c.1820-c.1904) and Margaret Gallagher (c.1818-c.1892)

On Henry I have.....
from 1841 census Henry age 21, Mother Catherine, age 60, living with at Browns Road, John age 40, also Uncle Hugh age 48, labourer, sister catherine age 23 & her daughter mary 9 months Carlisle
1851 census Botchergate,
1861 census - mason's labourer living Scotland, Winlaton - 1st 4 children born in Carlisle, move around 1856-8 to Winlaton
1871 census Corner Rd. Winlaton - Railway Labourer
1881 census Commercial Sq, Winlaton - general labourer

I have his father as John O'Neil and mother Margaret Gallagher - not sure if I found a birth/baptism record for him but did for his brother Joesph (I have a note that I got it from RC parish records, but someone in Carlisle actually went and checked for me so cannot be seen online).

Henry, John and Alice are names that pop up throughout the tree, if you give me dates I can check if they are the exact same people.
My tree is on GenesReunited, but you would need a paying subscription to see it.
granddaughter Margaret age 9 (?birth sep 1872 gateshead) living with Henry & Margaret

[Nayra]

Hello Andrea - I just have a few questions for you

Was Henry O'Neill's mother Cathrine? Do you know where she was born and her year of death?

Was Hugh O'Neill her brother?

Do you know the names of Cathrine's parents? or where they were born?

My Mother was 91 when she passed away in March and always said there were Irish ancestors - I just want to know what year they came over the Carlisle if you know.

So we must be related in some way, at least by marriage.  I was born in 1957 in Yorkshire, although my parents both came from Northumberland but our family moved to Australia in 1960 so I guess you could say I am an Aussie now

I wish I could have found out all this history while Mum was still here.  Very very interesting and thanks for your help.

Ann

[andferdav]

I have Henry as born c.1820 in Carlisle son of John O'Neill (c. 1780, pure guess) and Catherine Shannon (c.1780 as aged 60 on 1841 census) I have a possible death for her in 1844 in Carlisle.
On the 1841 census there is a column for born in Scotland or Ireland and it looks like an I in it, so assume she was born in Ireland, but no way to tell where.

From the census I could see that Henry had a brother John and someone managed to look at RC Parish records in Carlisle for me and found a baptism for him in 1811 showing father John O'Neil mother Catherine Shannon. I think John must have died before the B,M,D records started in 1837 as I could not find anything for him.
Henry's sister Margaret shows father as John on her marriage.

Also from the 1841 census there is a Hugh O'Neill age 48 at the same address as Catherine, Henry etc. but as his name is O'Neill I have always assumed it is her brother-in-law, not brother. Quite a bit younger than her, or presumably her deceased husband, but families tended to be large and cover many years from first to last baby, so he could be a younger brother of John, looks like an I in the born in Scotland/Ireland/foreign parts column.

I have Henry's first 5 children born in Carlisle, they must have moved to Winlaton, near Gateshead around 1854-57.
Henry's wife was Margaret Gallagher, born in Scotland, appears to have had 7 children

John - 1843 (O'Neale)
Joseph - must have died young as another Joseph later, sound gruesome now but common then to reuse a name -1845-c.1846
Agnes Maron - quarter ending Dec. 1847 - from John's baptism a witness was Marion Gallagher (?sister of Margaret) so          presume should be Marion non Maron
Joseph - q.e. March 1851, Carlisle
Robert  - q.e. Dec. 1854, Carlisle
William - q.e. Sept. 1857, Gateshead
Catherine - c.1860-1951

Hope that helps a little, but I cannot tell you anything about anyone before John and Catherine.

If you are just starting to look at family history you might find freebmd.org.uk useful for births, marriages and deaths from q.e. Sept. 1837, as the name suggests it's free to use.
Family search from the Church of Latterday Saints if very useful too, though their new site seems to miss some of the records I found on their old one. https://familysearch.org/search
I found out a lot by signing up for a free 14 day trial with Ancestry.co.uk then cancelling as it's quite expensive and I couldn't get anything more at the time.
GenesReunited is good as you can build your tree on it for free, you get 'matches' and 'hot matches' for people who might be in someone else's tree. You have to pay to see trees and make contact, but I got a lot of help when I did subscribe.

kind regards
Andrea
p.s. I was born in Northumberland, left at 21 and spent the next 29 years or so moving around the world with my husband's job. Back in the UK for 7 years, but near London.

[Nayra]

Hi Andrea - well thanks for all this info.  It has been such a great help.  Now I would like to try and find out more about Cathrine and John O'Neill and would love to know where they were born in ireland. What part of Northumberland are you from? I went to England when i was 21 and lived there for three years in Forest Hall near Newcastle Upon Tyne - I felt very at home there (must be my Geordie ancestry   Planning on going back to UK next year so will definitely have a look at Commercial Square Winlaton where the O'Neills lived for some time and also Belford where my father's family came from and also Carlisle.  Thanks again for all your help with this.  I will contact you if I am successful at finding out any more on Cathrine O'Neill 

[andferdav]

I have more of the family too, including a Catherine who seems to have had at least 7 illegitimate children! She seems to have stayed in Carlisle and is on the 1861 census as Oneal, but 1871 her surname has changed to what looks like Montgomery, but I cannot see a marriage and there is no man in the household.

Can't get GenesReunited to allow me to copy out just the O'Neill part of my tree at the moment. I have one from 2008, but there have been more members added since then.

If you are going to look at censuses I have just seen that some have the name as Oneal, might help your search if O'Neil(l) doesn't find them.

I'm from Tynemouth, my husband from Whitley Bay, both on the coast east of Newcastle.