uncle married niece

[humanracer]

Feeling a bit upset actually as I discovered that my great grandfather married his niece. The discovery was the result of this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=555265.new;topicseen#new

I spent a lot of time (and money) on my tree and feel now my excitement has waned due to this discovery. I feel so ashamed to show anyone my tree now. As odd as it sounds, I would rather my great grandfather had been a murderer or somthing. Being in an incestious relationship is harder to deal with.

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

[Gadget]

Hi

I'm sorry that you feel upset 

As one of the people on the other thread and maybe the one who spelled it out, I do have some understanding of what you feel.

Last year or the year before, a TV programme suggested that my 3x great grandfather was the father of 3-4 of one of his daughters' children. No proof was given. Those of us who shared this  3 x great grandfather had not heard of this before and at least one of us had proof that it was not the case. However, it was too late to do anything about it but I was very angry at the time.

I think we have to accept that times were very different then. I expect that there are many instances of offspring being the result of  parental, sibling and other close family relationships but only a few of us discover them.  In other times and societies (e.g. Ancient Egypt and the Royal families of Europe) close relative marriage was the preferred form.

I found, though, that I was more upset by finding out that  one of my few 'posh' ancestors probably raped his mother's maidservant. He was then hastily married to a 'suitable' woman, from whom I'm descended..  The entry in the baptism register doesn't even name the maid 

Don't feel ashamed, you have no reason to be. It happened long ago. Maybe trying to think of how they felt might help.


gnu

[Annie65115]

There have been several other threads on RC about people feeling upset over skeletons that have come tumbling out of the closet, so you are not alone.

However, I firmly believe that we should never judge our ancestors. We don't know how their lives panned out; we shouldn't apply modern standards to times that didn't share our current values and mores.

An uncle-neice union was not legal. But - well, maybe they really loved each other? (please note I'm not trying to excuse incest per se with that comment!) - If they were both adults and chose each other with love and affection, then legal or otherwise, would that be as terrible as you seem to feel? There is certainly no reason for you to feel any personal sense of shame or responsibility for the actions of people who lived long before you were born!

BTW in one of my family lines I have a large number of first cousin marraiges, and an uncle/neice marraige too. I was quite shocked when I found it, but more from the pov of the illegality and wondering what the penalty would have been. But I have never felt that I need to feel any personal distress about this.

[peb21]

I have been told that my G.grandfather was imprisoned  for having an incestuous relationship with his daughter while his wife was in the local mental hospital in the early 1920's.  So you are not alone.

[jojo1973]

I agree with Annie...our ancestors came from another time and place and sometimes did things differently than we did..if the marriage was out of love then i cannot imagine the struggle they had and if it was done out of neccesity then i cannot imagine the struggle they had...there is no reason for you to feel bad for something your ancestors did..(and honestly,isnt everyone searching for that little something that sets their family apart from others? Good or bad..) i hope these posts helps you feel a little better...Jodi

[danuslave]

There are far worse things going on in the world even today.

I think that the crucial point here is that

great grandfather married his niece

rather than a hole-in-the corner affair.  It might have been illegal and/or ill-advised, but I don't think you need to feel upset or ashamed.

As has already been said, we are not responsible for other people's actions, particularly when they lived long before we were born.

I suspect that, unless you point it out, most people looking at your tree wouldn't even notice the relationship. 

Be pleased that you've managed to untangle the mystery and move on to another branch   

Linda

[Plummiegirl]

Was he a blood relation or just her g/uncle through marriage?

In my family I have an 'aunt' marrying her nephew, but she was only his aunt through her marriage to his mothers brother so no blood connection.

As said before those were far different times.

We must not judge by todays' standards.

[topjars]

Hi All,
I found out that an Uncle married his niece in my family tree recently.
It come as a bit of a shock! They had two children both of which died within a three year period AND... the niece also died within the same period.

This occurred in Burra, South Australia in 1893.
Its actually legal to marry onces niece in Australia....wiki below;

"Avunculate marriage refers to a marriage between an uncle and a niece or between an aunt and a nephew (third degree relations). In some societies avunculate marriage is prohibited as a form of incest, while in others it is legal, even common.
 
The partners of an avunculate marriage have the same genetic relationship as half-siblings or a grandparent and grandchild, sharing on average 25% of their genetic material. This is more than that of a first cousin relationship, in which on average the members would share 12.5% of their genetic material, but less than that of full siblings.
 
Avunculate marriages were once frequent among the royal houses of Europe, as Leviticus 18 was not interpreted to explicitly forbid the marriage of a man with the daughter of his sibling; in Catholic countries a papal dispensation could be and often was obtained to allow such a marriage.
 
Avunculate marriage is currently illegal in most Anglophone nations,[1] but is allowed in Argentina, Australia, Austria, Brazil, France, and Russia."

[ggrocott]

I too have a similar incident on my tree - nephew marrying his much older blood aunt, when she died he went on to marry his first cousin and they had a large family.  One assumes the family as a whole were aware of this and accepted it, so why should it worry me?  It did however, make research a little more 'interesting'.  I guess they were a close family and enjoyed one another's company - they weren't particularly wealthy so it wasn't a case of 'keeping the money in the family' although they may have felt responsible for looking after one another, especially given they had moved from Bedfordshire to Somerset en masse.

I think if I found a mass murderer I might be a bit upset but the odd bit of drunkeness, petty larceny, bastardy and consensual 'incest' like this merely makes them more interesting people for me - puts the flesh on the bones as it were!