help with Agnes Ellen Williams (maybe not born in Scotland!)

[flst]

Well done!
I'm still wanting to know if William's age was mistranscribed in the 1891 census as it differs from that in the 1881.
flst

[Gadget]

HI flst

It's definitely a 40 on the original.

Could you tell me whether the 'prohibited degree' was the same in Scotland as it was in Eng & Wales, please?


gnu

[flst]

These are the current regulations;
Certain relatives are not allowed to marry. Under Scots law, one may not marry one's:
    ancestor or descendant
    sibling
    aunt/uncle or nephew/niece
    adoptive parent
    adopted child
I'm not familiar with english Law but I presume it's the same?
flst

[Gadget]

Thanks 

It's very much the same. Wiki has quite a few tables about the various  English Acts .


gnu

[humanracer]

a serious question, how do you handle those sorts of "relationships" in your family tree? 

Hi

Mary Ellen Williams was the mother of Agnes Williams. Her parents were Alexander Plunkett, stevedore, and Susannah McLuskey

James Plunkett married  Agnes Williams. His parents , on the marriage cert, were Alexander Plunkett, stevedore and  Susan McLuskey.

Thus James was Agnes's full uncle  - so Agnes gives her mother's MS as Rooney.  Even if Mary Ellen was a Rooney (good name  ), he would be Agnes's half/step uncle   

I don't think it was legal to marry one's niece  in 1904 - not in England anyway 


gnu 

Gnu,

Perhaps I am clutching at straws here but I am looking at other possible explainations for what has happened here.

I found the marriage cert of Mary Ellen Plunkett/William/Cringles third and final marriage to William Anderson. It lists her parents as Alexender Plunkett, coal miner and Mary Plunkett ms McCloskey. Now her "real" parents are supposed to be Alexender Plunkett, a stevedore and Susanna McClusky. Death certs are often wrong BUT why would a marriage cert have the wrong info?. Perhaps Mary was another name Susanna used or perhaps Mary Ellen gave wrong info to cover up the shame of her bothers marriage to her daughter. What do you think?

Also having trouble locating Agnes and/or Mary Ellen in the 1901 census.  At this point, James is living with his wife Elizabeth and his two children from that marriage. No idea where Agnes is at this point. And why was she living with her grandparents in 1891?

[Gadget]

Hi

It's up to you to interpret but marriage certs are usually the more accurate because those giving the info are closer to the parents.

In Agnes's case, I think she used Rooney as her mother's M.S, to cover up. She also added 5 years to her age.

I'll have a quick look for them on the 1901 but have to go to Ullapool shortly!


gnu

[Gadget]

Is this Agnes in 1901:

26 Leven Street, Pollockshields, Glasgow 644/13 39 13

In the household of James Nicholson a hatter and hosier.

Agnes Williams, 16, general servant (domestic), b. Fifeshire




gnu

[Gadget]

I believe that Mary Ellen and Robert Williams are at 23 Old Camp, Motherwell (Dalziel Reg Dist) in 1901 - 639 21 56

Robert Williams, 43, coal miner b. Wales
Mary E, 37, b. England
Hobart, 20, coal miner, b. Wales
Jane, 17, b. England
Margareta, 13, domestic servant,  b. Cowdenbeath
James, 11, b. -do-
Joseph, 10, b. Motherwell
Alexander, 8, b. -do-
Mary E, 6, b. -do-
Fellias, 2, b. -do-


gnu

[humanracer]

I believe that Mary Ellen and Robert Williams are at 23 Old Camp, Motherwell (Dalziel Reg Dist) in 1901 - 639 21 56

Robert Williams, 43, coal miner b. Wales
Mary E, 37, b. England
Hobart, 20, coal miner, b. Wales
Jane, 17, b. England
Margareta, 13, domestic servant,  b. Cowdenbeath
James, 11, b. -do-
Joseph, 10, b. Motherwell
Alexander, 8, b. -do-
Mary E, 6, b. -do-
Fellias, 2, b. -do-


gnu

Thanks GNU. Are those other people the children of the couple?

Also do we know where Mary Ellen was in the 1891 census. It might help me find out why Agnes was staying with her grandparents.