Joseph Dobson, aka Samuel HELP PLEASE

[jsm]

For years now I have been trying to sort out which of the many Joseph Dobsons my gt grandfather might be.  I have him on the 1881 census with the family in West Melton, I have his death cert in 1885.  (There is no marriage cert as he and Mary Ann nee Mark didn't marry - she was already married to someone else!)

I have tried to get birth certs for daur Sarah Ellen (aka Nellie) and for daur Alice - the GRO couldn't find either of them.

I have the birth cert for daur Hannah (born 1876) and recently decided I'd get the cert for son Joseph in 1874.  Much to my surprise Joseph's father is down as Samuel. 

Now is this a different man (can't find a likely birth on ancestry or igi)?  Or did he change his name?

I've looked at the baptism records for Felkirk in 1876 and 1874 - in 1876 he is shown as Joseph, father of Hannah baptised Mar 26th.  On his son Joseph's record he is down as Samuel, crossed out and altered to Joseph followed by  a word I can't read.  Can anybody help with this puzzle PLEASE

[mirf]

Hi Bap Felkirk:
 Joseph Feb 22 son of Joseph Preistley and Mary Dobson  miner of Shafton
 Hannah  Mar 26 Dau "     "       "     "       "      "         "           "             "
 any help !  Mirf

[jsm]

Thanks, yes I saw that. 

But when you look at the original instead of the transcription it definitely doesn't say 'Priestley'.  There's a handwritten 'Samuel' crossed out, and above it 'Joseph' and another word that I cannot read no matter how hard I try!

[mirf]

Hi I have just looked again at bap for Joseph  (orignal) and blown it up and it does not
say Priestley   on his Occupation Engine Driver is crossed out and Miner put in
    mirf    P.S  Maybe when he was asked father's name he put down HIS Father name
     who could Have been Samuel !!

[jsm]

Well, the really weird thing is that the birth cert of Joseph (junior) 1874 gives Samuel as the father's name whereas 2 years later, Hannah's birth cert gives Joseph as the father's name. 

I'm trying to establish if there are 2 men involved - or just the one. 

Can't find any records though that help me though.  I've been trying to identify Joseph Dobson for YEARS.  The Samuel thing just confounds me even more.

Thanks for trying.

[mirf]

Hi  This is how I have seen it Joseph Jnr -father Joseph  his father could be Samuel
I think I found a Joseph on 1871 census in Leeds with Samuel as is father.
 Your Sarah Ellen in 1901 looks to be a servant for a Edward Smith in West Melton
    Regards mirf

[Sandymc47]

Hi there

I think you are looking at 2 Joseph Dobsons both born in 1874 but in different places in Yorkshire.

The one you are talking about was born in Shafton in 1874 and has
parents Joseph and Mary Ann
The other one was called Joseph Dobson and was born in Holbeck
Leeds, and his parents are Samuel and Charlotte.

Probably the birth certificate has been mixed up with the towns??
The towns you mentioned of Shafton, Felkirk, and West Melton are
all near to Barnsley.  Leeds is 30 miles away and Holbeck is a suberb
of Leeds.

I have looked at the 1881 census for both families and Joseph in Shafton
has 3 sisters including a Hannah and Joseph of Holbeck, Leeds has 4 sisters
one called Ann but she was born in 1860 and he had  3 brothers.

regards Sandymc

Hope this helps

[jsm]

Thanks for trying - but the birth certs I have here are for

Hannah Dobson born  Jan 1876 Shafton, parents Mary Ann Dobson formerly Mark, and Joseph Dobson coal miner

Joseph Dobson born  Jan 1874 Shafton, parents Mary Ann Dobson formerly Mark, and Joseph Dobson coal miner

So same mother, same reg district same everything except for the father's name.

Mary Ann (nee Mark) is definitely my gt grandmother.

1881 has Mary Ann with husband Joseph living in Cudworth (stones throw from Shafton, so it could even be that the census called it Cudworth and the reg district called it Shafton)  Sarah Ellen aka Nellie, is definitely my grandmother.  But WHO was her father - Joseph?  Samuel?  or is it the same guy?

[Sandymc47]

Hi again

I have seen the Church Baptism record for Joseph and I can see 
words marked out and so also the occupation
It does state though that his father is Joseph Priestley Dobson
and Mother is Mary. He is a Miner, but they did have small trains
that collected coal from the mines even as far back as 1840.

I think it was the scribe who has been distracted and written it down
wrongly. I looked for Hannahs baptism and a few pages after hers they have crossed out the surname Green and put another one that looks like
Haltenby. So quite obvious someone was having trouble writing things
down on these records.

 You could also contact the Registry office for BMD where you
got your certificate from and advise them that it should be
Joseph Priestley Dobson and not Samuel. Tell them there is a crossing out of two parts of the Baptism record for your relative and that it is online so that people who subscribe to that site can see it and can they recheck their information. They should,  if they have made a mistake give you a corrected one by return of post. 

Shafton is his place of birth but Cudworth was the census area. 
You have to be slightly flexible with your interpretation of these old records.
Having seen the transcript I would certainly feel there is only one man
who is Josephs Father and that is also Joseph not a Samuel.

Hope this helps

regards Sandymc