Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)

[SignalHill]

If he was born in NZ at that time, would he have been a British subject because of his parents? PM
Jorose, could the birthplace of Joseph be Meinz?

In New Zealand we were all British subjects (or aliens) from 6 Feb 1840 until 31 December 1947 and if we were British Subjects normally resident in NZ on 1 January 1948 we became New Zealand Citizens by virtue of the New Zealand Nationality and Citizenship Act 1947.

Children born to naturalised British parents in the British Empire or on a British Ship would be born British and fathers nationality would in most cases take precedence.

Registration of the Birth comes after the Birth and would be evidence of the Citizenship but not incontrovertible.   Failure to register would not affect the birthrights (including citizenship) of the child.

SH

[Pastmagic]

Thank you for that, useful info! So while some of the children had to be naturalized, Edward did not. Going on the earlier post then, it looks like he was born in Port Chambers, maybe he was registered in some way on the boat, or could he have been born on the boat on the 12th and it didn't sail for a few days? Harriet Taylor is the mother as per censuses above, but Joseph as schoolteacher?

Findmypast has an entry for an 1864 birth at sea of a son to Joseph Werner, so this may account for the missing BDM record.  Joseph was a schoolteacher and his wife was Harriet Taylor.

[jorose]

It appears Mayence is the French name for Mainz (in Rhineland-Palatinate, it has been occupied by the French a couple times).
Fits with his occupation in the "wine trade" in 1851.

I was looking to see if there was any trace of Joseph's death in the UK, and there is a:
Reinhardt Joseph Werner, d. Dec quarter 1874 Tunbridge district, aged 57

The combination of location and right age is interesting - also here is the details of son John's gravestone which gives both him and his father with the middle name Reinhardt (and confirms his father's origin as Mainz).
http://www.archimedes.free-online.co.uk/ghana.htm

[Pastmagic]

Following on from that, loks like Edward was not the only author in the family - John R wrote a book too:
http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Werner%2C%20John%20Reinhardt
Original has been digitised.
PM

[SignalHill]

It was common for passengers to board and live on a ship for a few days before sailing.

Setting Sail depended on getting as much paying cargo on board as possible and the right wind and tides.   The captain would not want to be bothered by whether passengers were all on board - that was their reponsibility

This excerpt illustrates the passenger's position

Otago Witness , Issue 540, 5 Apr 1862, P.3 RESIDENT MAGISTRATE'S COURT, PORT CHALMERS.
Wednesday, 2nd April. (Before T. A. Mansford, Esq., R.M.) CONTRAVENTION OF THE PASSENGERS' ACT. William Murray, master of the ship Genii, at present lying at Port Chalmers, was charged, on the information of Mr. Monson, emigration officer, with a contravention of the 36th section of the Passenger Act, inasmuch as he had failed to supply provisions to passengers on board his vessel.
When asked to plead, Captain Murray said there might have been some fault on his part in this instance, but he would plead Not Guilty, and, in evidence of the charge, Mr. Monson called John Holden, who said that he had taken out a passage by the ship Genii, through Mr. George Lumm, shipping agent at Dunedin. On his ticket it was stated that the ship should sail on or about Friday 28th March.   He went on board several days before that, and was on board that day.   He received no provisions of any kind all that day.   In the absence of the captain, he asked the chief officer if he was to have provisions, and the officer said he had nothing to give, and ultimately told him to go and get provision where he could.   On the following day, he received no bread or beef, but got some potatoes for dinner.   On Sunday also he received potatoes only. He could not swear whether he did or did not get some beef that day. The passengers spoke to Captain Murray on the subject on Saturday, and in the witness's hearing, he told them they might go to h— ll if they liked." but he subsequently ordered the steward to bring up a bag of potatoes ......[The Captain was fined.]

SH

[Pastmagic]

Very intersting - so that is probably how he came to be born both at sea and in Port Chalmbers.

Looks like the Werner girls were were pretty unusual too. I found a reference to Edward being the sister of this Alice.


http://www.poemhunter.com/alice-werner/biography/

Alice Werner was born in Trieste on 26 June 1859. In her youth she lived in New Zealand, Mexico, USA and Europe. She was educated partly in Germany, and later in England, where she attended Newnham College, Cambridge University. Her interest in Africa began with visits to Nyasaland in 1893 and Natal in 1894. In 1899 she taught Afrikaans and Zulu in London. Between 1911-1913 she toured East Africa, where she came into contact with Swahili and other languages of the region. In 1917 she joined the School of Oriental Studies as one of the original members of staff, initially as Lecturer but later as Reader and eventually Professor of Swahili and Bantu languages. She continued in this position until her retirement at the end of the 19291930 session. During this time, she also taught at Oxford and Cambridge, in co-operation with her sister Mary Werner. In 1928, Alice Werner received the degree of Director of Litterature from the University of London. After her retirement in 1930, she received the title of Emeritus Professor from the same University. In 1931 she was awarded the Silver medal of the African Society, of which she was Vice-President. She died on 9 June 1935.

Eldest sister Josephene turns up still in Tunbridge age 38 unmarried, a teacher, lodging in the house of a Mrs.Humprey, widow of independent means, and the widows daughter Kate, a dressmaker,in Wadhurst, Sussex. in 1881.
Sister Eva Emma is ath home with mother Harriet as a schoolteaher in a ladies school in 1881.
Then the trail goes cold.
So far looks like none of Joseph and Harriets children have produced biological children...
PM

[Lucy2]

Such a fascinating family.   

But there's more  ...   

Seems the WERNER family were not headed directly for London on the "Black Swan" in November 1864  ...

In 1868 extracts from a (wonderful) letter received from Mr J. WERNER, (telling of his family's "adventures"), were published in a Dunedin (NZ) newspaper.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

"Otago Daily Times" - 29 July 1968 - The DUNEDIN ... page 4
[About halfway down column ... "The following extracts .." ] 

*  he talks, amongst other things, of having just left in England, a manuscript of a work, "A year in Mexico during the reign of Maximilian in 1865, with sketches from real life" (by J. WERNER), which he hoped would be published.

Joseph WERNER also mentions ... "I was the man who went in search of a quiet home, to distant New Zealand".   

Obviously though, his thirst for adventure, was difficult to quell.

How very brave he and Harriet must have been.   

~  Lu

[Pastmagic]

Hi Lu,
That is terrific!  Such an epic journey wit seven kids in tow....imagine having to go to school in Tonbridge after such adventures....no wonder some of the kids spent their adult lives in having more adventures...Just going to have a hunt for that book.

Pm

[Lucy2]

"Otago Witness" - 12 November 1891 - Deaths

WERNER - On 16 August, at Elmins ? .. Gold Coast, West Africa, of pneumonia, John Reinhardt WERNER, Engineer FRGS, son of the late R. J. WERNER of Mainz, Germany and Tonbridge, Kent, in his 29th year :

* This son was born c. 1862 (no sign of regn. of his birth in NZ), so was 2 to 3 years old when his family departed.   Curious as to why his death notice was published in NZ ?
[Perhaps it was just a courtesy, to inform old friends ?   ]

  ~  Lu