Author Topic: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)  (Read 6467 times)

Offline SignalHill

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 13 September 11 23:40 BST (UK) »
Is this a sister ?

NZ BDM
1889/1615   Jane Josephine    Werner    Andrew    Anderson
Presbyterian Archives
WERNER Jane Josephine 46y    
ANDERSON Andrew 50y
2 May 1889 Kaikorai   

SH

Calvert Dobson Metcalfe;  Otago, Yorkshire
Johns Blewett;   Bendigo, Cornwall
Turnbull Hempseed Matheson;  Otago, Bendigo, Lothian
Butterfield;   NZ, Yorkshire
Brewer Tothill;   NZ, Gloucester London
Klee;   Canterbury, London, Hanover
Cutler;   Fordingbridge Hampshire
Hill ;  Taranaki
Gordon Dunn;   Otaki Wellington
Anderson;   Canterbury Tyrone

Offline SignalHill

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 13 September 11 23:46 BST (UK) »
Geo, Ferdinand WERNER

listed in Otago Boys High School Centennial Register 1963 as a foundation pupil

attended 1863 - 1864 described as shipbroker, Antwerp Holland died 1892.

SH
Calvert Dobson Metcalfe;  Otago, Yorkshire
Johns Blewett;   Bendigo, Cornwall
Turnbull Hempseed Matheson;  Otago, Bendigo, Lothian
Butterfield;   NZ, Yorkshire
Brewer Tothill;   NZ, Gloucester London
Klee;   Canterbury, London, Hanover
Cutler;   Fordingbridge Hampshire
Hill ;  Taranaki
Gordon Dunn;   Otaki Wellington
Anderson;   Canterbury Tyrone

Offline SignalHill

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 14 September 11 00:21 BST (UK) »
Mr WERNER elected to Wakari School Committee
source Otago Witness , Issue 549, 7 June 1862, Page 5

Mr Joseph Werner sold land at Auction
SATURDAY, 6th DECEMBER, At 1 o'clock. 50 acres freehold land "Situated in the best part of Kaikorai Valley" Government Road [now Kaikorai Valley Road]
source Otago Daily Times , Issue 301, 6 December 1862, Page 2

SHIPPING.         PORT CHALMERS.—Nov. 15. 
DEPARTURES
Black Swan, ship, 908 ton, White, for Callan, 10 passengers
PASSENGER LIST, Per Black Swan for Callan: Mr and Mrs Werner and family Mr
Edward Cross
source   Otago Daily Times , Issue 907, 16 November 1864, Page 4

Did Joseph sell up and leave before he even got on to the Roll ?

SH



Calvert Dobson Metcalfe;  Otago, Yorkshire
Johns Blewett;   Bendigo, Cornwall
Turnbull Hempseed Matheson;  Otago, Bendigo, Lothian
Butterfield;   NZ, Yorkshire
Brewer Tothill;   NZ, Gloucester London
Klee;   Canterbury, London, Hanover
Cutler;   Fordingbridge Hampshire
Hill ;  Taranaki
Gordon Dunn;   Otaki Wellington
Anderson;   Canterbury Tyrone

Offline SignalHill

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 541
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 08 October 11 04:43 BST (UK) »
Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner

SHIPPING.         PORT CHALMERS.—Nov. 15.  DEPARTURES
Black Swan, ship, 908 ton, White, for Callan, 10 passengers
PASSENGER LIST, Per Black Swan for Callan: Mr and Mrs Werner and family Mr
Edward Cross

Why would Edward and family have been off to Chile ?

SH
Calvert Dobson Metcalfe;  Otago, Yorkshire
Johns Blewett;   Bendigo, Cornwall
Turnbull Hempseed Matheson;  Otago, Bendigo, Lothian
Butterfield;   NZ, Yorkshire
Brewer Tothill;   NZ, Gloucester London
Klee;   Canterbury, London, Hanover
Cutler;   Fordingbridge Hampshire
Hill ;  Taranaki
Gordon Dunn;   Otaki Wellington
Anderson;   Canterbury Tyrone


Offline Pastmagic

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Levington House, Mullingar
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 08 October 11 12:20 BST (UK) »
Find it difficult to workout where the Black Swan was heading to.....


http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=ODT18641116.2.5&e=-------10--1----0--

THe Chile ref is to another  ship which had arrived - nothing to do with the Black SWan, if I read it aright.

Callan, Cailio? The Black Swan Ariived from London, as per:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~shipstonz/portchalmers1.html Can't find details of the voyage with the Werners.
Bit strange actually: See:
http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Bre02Whit-t1-body-d2-d7.html
PM









Offline Lucy2

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,587
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 08 October 11 16:29 BST (UK) »
Callao   ... the Port of Peru.

A scheduled stop no doubt for the "Black Swan" en route to England ... to replenish food stocks / deliver, uplift,  cargo / offload or pick up passengers  ...

Offline Pastmagic

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Levington House, Mullingar
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 08 October 11 17:41 BST (UK) »
Well Done!

Have just found an obit for him that says he was born in Dunedin on 12th November 1864 - so if they went on that ship, maybe they did not register him. He would have been a couple of days old before the ship sailed. This made it easy to work out a bit more about Joseph:

   
The Times, Tuesday, Feb 16, 1954; pg. 8

PM

Added later: RG11/918 Tonbridge, where he is said to have been educated in that obit.
He is in the 1881 Census down as son of widowed mother Harriet aged 57 (Inccorect transcription of his initials to S C)  Her occ. is given as Annuitant. She is born Clapham Surrey.
Harriet has also two daughters:
Mary Harriet, aged 23, Born  Munich Bavaria, British subject. Schoolteacher.
Eva Emma Warner aged 33 Scholmistress born Clifton Somerset.
There is also a lodger, Julia Hutchings, Prof.of Music.

Added later still: RG/9/414

Joseph Harriet and family in 1861:
Joseph Werner    43 Naturalised British Subject born Germany Merchant (?) to the Russian Steam Navigation and Traiding Company.
Harriett Werner    38 as before
Children:
Josaphine 18 Born France (1851 gives Paris)
Eva Werner 14 born Clifton Glos.
Ferdinand G 11 Born Germany (1851 gives Hamburg)
Mary 5 Born Germany
Alice    1 Born France.

Also in house: Address 7  the Grove, Lee Kent.
Marie Fesca    56  Companion born Germany
Jane Taylor    63 mother-in-law born Middlesex
Theresa Beckway    23 Servant born germany
Bertha Bergst    22            ditto
   
The Russian Steam Navigation and Trading Company  of Odessa was one of the biggest joint stock steamship companies in Imperial Russia. It was established in 1856 and ceased to exist in 1918 due to nationalization after the revolution in Russia.

Tonbidge school register:
Werner, Edward Theodore Chalmers. 1874-82. Third and youngest
son of Joseph Werner. 6. 1864. Passed a competitive exami-
nation at London University for a Student Interpretership in
China, Japan, and Siam, 1884. Appointed to H.M. Consular
Service in China. Stationed at Pekin.

Werner, John Eeinhardt. 1874-9. Second son of Joseph Werner.
h. 1862. Formerly an engineer in the Peninsular and Oriental
Company's service. Went out in the Spring of 1886 as an
engineer to the Independent State of the Congo, Africa.
Third son accounted  for  By S-l in post 10 above!

in 1851 Harriet and children were living in Kensington at No 15 Bedford Place. 2 Servants both English. Harriet has a possible death reg for 1904.Joseph is noted as absent, working in the wine trade in Germany

Photos of ECTW wife and adopted  daughter:
http://www.midnightinpeking.com/downloads/cast-of-characters/
probably from the book you mentioned.
Pretty interesting family, all in all!

Offline jorose

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 9,911
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #16 on: Monday 10 October 11 11:19 BST (UK) »
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/
 has Werner, Joseph, from Mayence as naturalising in 1852.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Pastmagic

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,375
  • Levington House, Mullingar
    • View Profile
Re: Edward Theodore Chalmers Werner (1864–1954)
« Reply #17 on: Monday 10 October 11 11:42 BST (UK) »
Aah  .. wonder if this is Edward ?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

"Otago Daily Times"  - 15 November 1864 - page 4 - Births

.... 12 November, at Port Chalmers, wife of J. WERNER, a son

[Father may have been a "Julius WERNER"  ?    Will check further for you. ]

~   Lu
The obit I found in the times shows that you are right with this one. I am now wondering  if he was registered in NZ on that date, but have no way to check. If he was born in NZ at that time, would he have been a British subject because of his parents? PM
Jorose, could the birthplace of Joseph be Meinz?