Author Topic: First man executed at Norwich Prison  (Read 11325 times)

Offline Joanne

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 01 September 11 10:49 BST (UK) »
I wonder if this new book has anything about him in it? http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0752458655/ref=aw_d_detail?pd=1
Cousins (all variations) from Crowfield/Stonham Aspal/Elmsett/Pettaugh. Chapman from Worlingworth/Hornham/Dennington. Westrup from Bungay/Hales/Haddiscoe Sawyer from Woodbridge/Ipswich/Martlesham/Aldeburgh. Bruty from Clare

Offline flipflops

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 01 September 11 11:17 BST (UK) »
Barefoot, Barley, Bedborough, Benett, Blandy, Brown, Clements, Doucett, Fisher, Franklin, Goodchild, Greenwood, Heath, Horwood, Osmond, Westbury: Berks/Berks and Wilts.

Woodhouse: Montgomeryshire

Booth, Braddock, Drabble, Hatton, Henshaw, Whitehead: Tameside and Cheshire

Offline Olleyke

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #11 on: Friday 02 September 11 15:44 BST (UK) »
Thank you for the links Joanne and flipflops. I went into town today to try and find it but unfortunately Waterstones and Jarrolds don't have it yet  ::)

Thankfully he's doing a book signing in Norwich next month so I'll be able to purchase it then and talk to him :D

Kirsty
BLYTH - Norwich, Bradford
BUCK - Horsham St Faiths
DERBYSHIRE - Lancashire, Leeds
EASTO - Bungay, Diss, Fressingfield, Norwich
EDGE - South Creake
HOLMES - Crostwick, Norwich
JACOBS - Norwich, Tasburgh
LANDAMORE - Old Catton
MANN - Aylsham, Norwich
MURRELL - Norwich
OLLEY - Norwich, Fulham, Great Yarmouth, Hammersmith, Skeyton
PAINTER - Wigan
ROWE - Wigan
SAVORY - Flitcham
SMITH - Norwich
STOREY - Skeyton
UNDERWOOD - Lancashire

Offline STEWBNUFC

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 03 September 13 19:27 BST (UK) »
Olleyke

Interested that Sophia Watts was related to you as she was my wife's Maternal Great Grandmother and is the family 'Skeleton in the Cupboard'.. 

I've spent a bit of time trying to track down the story and apart from finding your post have found a really good book "Norwich Murders" by Maurice Morson.  If you haven't seen it you will find the whole story of the murder and execution.

It would be good to exchange family knowledge at some point.


Offline STEWBNUFC

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 03 September 13 19:39 BST (UK) »
Olleyke

Also meant to say - how did you get on with the other book suggested in earlier posts ? 

Amazon have got the Maurice Morson book.

Offline aneplat_37

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 28 November 19 12:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ollie
I have been in Norwich prison many times
Before they built the new wings B & C the old Victorian wall ran around
This was mainly demolished
There is a part of the old wall left approximately 50 meters
There’s a grass verge which has the unmarked graves of I believe to be 5-6 who were executed there
There’s no memorial and a lot of people don’t know there’s unmarked graves there!
I hope I am able to of helped you get an answer
I think it’s terrible that their members of family are unable to pay there respects.
Please let me know if I have been as accurate as I can?
Best wishes

Offline Watt1

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 19 November 24 13:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi
George (aka in the literature, William, Jim but please see below) Watt was my direct line great-grandfather.  One of his children witnessed the murder of their mother Sophia.  There is good reason to believe that the child was my grandfather Thomas - whom I remember.  Thomas' eldest surviving son (the two elder sons were killed in a WW2 prank which went badly wrong) was my father Peter Watt.  Peter's middle name was Marston - but he always said he didn't know why - 'it is a family name').  I do not think that George was known as Jim or James for two reasons - the famous James Watt was an ancestor, and one of my dead uncles was called Jim. 
Of course, the execution took place at Mousehold Heath Prison - which is still in operation.  Executed prisoners were buried within the precincts (as far as I can see this is still the law - there was an attempt to reverse it when it became clear that Timothy Evans (10 Rillington Place) was innocent - but Timothy Evans was pardoned (and reburied in a Catholic cemetery) and the Bill failed with the change of government in the '60s). So it is impossible to visit George's gravesite - even if he is still there, many prisoner's bodies were stolen by the warders and sold for anatomisation. There may be an identifiable site. 
One of my brothers and I are going to visit Sophia's grave next month.  (Our other brother will not acknowledge the events in any way). There is a history of family trauma stretching back to the murder - and possibly beyond.  Thomas was a Private in HM Royal Marines in WW1 and left with the usual WW1 medals and a Long Service and Good Conduct medal.  Peter was a Royal Hospital School boy - which meant he joined the Navy at 11 and was on active service at 16 (Freetown Convoy Escort on HMS Frobisher). He left the Navy after Korea - so he had a full set of campaign Medals - including the Burma Star - for being on a ship which evacuated PoWs from Burma.  Many members of the family were prison officers - both civilian and glasshouse.  Peter was not - he was an electrician - but very much of the 'flog 'em and hang 'em' persuasion.  Looking back he clearly had - unsurprisingly- some form of PTSD.
My brother and I follow different spiritual paths but we intend to say our own forms of words and prayers over Sophia's grave.  I am trying to arrange a Chaplain (who can acknowledge different Paths) to say words and prayers over George's burial place.
I will use my words here in the hope that members of the Watt and Marston lines can agree.

Hail and Welcome to all present; seen and unseen, tangible and intangible.
We come in peace and fellowship.
We call upon George and Sophia to loose all chains of sadness and bitterness,
To forgive and be forgiven,
Let all depart in peace and fellowship,
Hail and Farewell.

I am sure my brother will use a Christian prayer which we can all acknowledge as another Path
(as Kipling wrote
'All ye who tread the Narrow Way,
By Tophet flare to Judgement Day
Be mindful ...)
Blessings upon all who read these words
Bob

Offline Olleyke

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 06 February 25 11:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ollie
I have been in Norwich prison many times
Before they built the new wings B & C the old Victorian wall ran around
This was mainly demolished
There is a part of the old wall left approximately 50 meters
There’s a grass verge which has the unmarked graves of I believe to be 5-6 who were executed there
There’s no memorial and a lot of people don’t know there’s unmarked graves there!
I hope I am able to of helped you get an answer
I think it’s terrible that their members of family are unable to pay there respects.
Please let me know if I have been as accurate as I can?
Best wishes

Hi aneplat_37,

So sorry I haven't responded sooner, I never got an e-mail notification and I haven't been on here for a while.

It completely makes sense. There was an episode of Murder, Mystery and My Family several years ago regarding a murder that took place in Great Yarmouth. The accused was hung at Norwich Prison, and the relative went to visit the prison where their ancestor is buried. It was a curved wall with gravel and a plaque on the wall. I managed to take some screenshots of it.

Thank you for your help :)

Kirsty
BLYTH - Norwich, Bradford
BUCK - Horsham St Faiths
DERBYSHIRE - Lancashire, Leeds
EASTO - Bungay, Diss, Fressingfield, Norwich
EDGE - South Creake
HOLMES - Crostwick, Norwich
JACOBS - Norwich, Tasburgh
LANDAMORE - Old Catton
MANN - Aylsham, Norwich
MURRELL - Norwich
OLLEY - Norwich, Fulham, Great Yarmouth, Hammersmith, Skeyton
PAINTER - Wigan
ROWE - Wigan
SAVORY - Flitcham
SMITH - Norwich
STOREY - Skeyton
UNDERWOOD - Lancashire

Offline Olleyke

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Re: First man executed at Norwich Prison
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 06 February 25 11:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi
George (aka in the literature, William, Jim but please see below) Watt was my direct line great-grandfather.  One of his children witnessed the murder of their mother Sophia.  There is good reason to believe that the child was my grandfather Thomas - whom I remember.  Thomas' eldest surviving son (the two elder sons were killed in a WW2 prank which went badly wrong) was my father Peter Watt.  Peter's middle name was Marston - but he always said he didn't know why - 'it is a family name').  I do not think that George was known as Jim or James for two reasons - the famous James Watt was an ancestor, and one of my dead uncles was called Jim. 
Of course, the execution took place at Mousehold Heath Prison - which is still in operation.  Executed prisoners were buried within the precincts (as far as I can see this is still the law - there was an attempt to reverse it when it became clear that Timothy Evans (10 Rillington Place) was innocent - but Timothy Evans was pardoned (and reburied in a Catholic cemetery) and the Bill failed with the change of government in the '60s). So it is impossible to visit George's gravesite - even if he is still there, many prisoner's bodies were stolen by the warders and sold for anatomisation. There may be an identifiable site. 
One of my brothers and I are going to visit Sophia's grave next month.  (Our other brother will not acknowledge the events in any way). There is a history of family trauma stretching back to the murder - and possibly beyond.  Thomas was a Private in HM Royal Marines in WW1 and left with the usual WW1 medals and a Long Service and Good Conduct medal.  Peter was a Royal Hospital School boy - which meant he joined the Navy at 11 and was on active service at 16 (Freetown Convoy Escort on HMS Frobisher). He left the Navy after Korea - so he had a full set of campaign Medals - including the Burma Star - for being on a ship which evacuated PoWs from Burma.  Many members of the family were prison officers - both civilian and glasshouse.  Peter was not - he was an electrician - but very much of the 'flog 'em and hang 'em' persuasion.  Looking back he clearly had - unsurprisingly- some form of PTSD.
My brother and I follow different spiritual paths but we intend to say our own forms of words and prayers over Sophia's grave.  I am trying to arrange a Chaplain (who can acknowledge different Paths) to say words and prayers over George's burial place.
I will use my words here in the hope that members of the Watt and Marston lines can agree.

Hail and Welcome to all present; seen and unseen, tangible and intangible.
We come in peace and fellowship.
We call upon George and Sophia to loose all chains of sadness and bitterness,
To forgive and be forgiven,
Let all depart in peace and fellowship,
Hail and Farewell.

I am sure my brother will use a Christian prayer which we can all acknowledge as another Path
(as Kipling wrote
'All ye who tread the Narrow Way,
By Tophet flare to Judgement Day
Be mindful ...)
Blessings upon all who read these words
Bob

Hi Watt1,

So sorry I haven't responded sooner, I never got an e-mail notification and I haven't been on here for a while.

Lovely to hear from you. I was in contact many years ago with another ancestor who said the exact same regarding the stigma the murder had left in the family.

I remember reading an article from the time of the murder that one of George & Sophias sons, "a boy of about eleven" attacked George when he was apprehended, could that have been Thomas? I know Thomas would have been around 15 at the time, and Malcolm was have been around 9.

There was an episode of Murder, Mystery and My Family on the BBC several years ago regarding a murder that took place in Great Yarmouth. The accused was hung at Norwich Prison, and the relative went to visit the prison where their ancestor is buried. It was a curved wall with gravel and a plaque on the wall. I managed to take some screenshots of it. The plaque says "Twelve men were excuted in this prison, between July 1898 and 1951. Their bodies are buried here." I had previously contacted the previous regarding Georges burial and they said they had no information  ???

Did you get to visit Sophias grave? We (my mum, uncle and I) are still local and tend to visit at least once a month.

Regarding the flying prank, are you referring to Alexander & Donald? I did try to research what happened but couldn't find anything at the time.

Are you aware of how George & Sophias son, Joseph died in 1913? We visited his grave last year after doing the research.

The Watt family went through so much. I can't imagine how it was for those left behind.

Hope you're keeping well.

Kirsty
BLYTH - Norwich, Bradford
BUCK - Horsham St Faiths
DERBYSHIRE - Lancashire, Leeds
EASTO - Bungay, Diss, Fressingfield, Norwich
EDGE - South Creake
HOLMES - Crostwick, Norwich
JACOBS - Norwich, Tasburgh
LANDAMORE - Old Catton
MANN - Aylsham, Norwich
MURRELL - Norwich
OLLEY - Norwich, Fulham, Great Yarmouth, Hammersmith, Skeyton
PAINTER - Wigan
ROWE - Wigan
SAVORY - Flitcham
SMITH - Norwich
STOREY - Skeyton
UNDERWOOD - Lancashire