Lesanne Scavenger hunt August 2011 .. part 2...

[jaywit]

We are going round in circles and not discovering anything new.

Now Esther last seen on the 1871 census. Has there been a thread looking for her?

If not then that would at least be a new angle.

Check Esther Williams marriages anywhere in England or Wales after 1874 ( when she was 16)

Check 1881 for any female any name born Forden or Berriew 1858 +/- 1 who doesn't appear on earlier  census returns.

That would do for starters.

[Lesanne]

I would really like to fill the great big gap in my Turner tree..(bapt, birth place and parents, census pre '71 etc)

Frances Mary Ann nee Williams (Gt Gt Grannie) and  of (nephew) Charles Williams

Why are you looking for Esther and Jane?

[toni*]

Charles should be nephew to the head,  did he have a sister who married a Williams ?
 

he in this case means the Head of the Household ?

[jaywit]

I would really like to fill the great big gap in my Turner tree..(bapt, birth place and parents, census pre '71 etc)

Frances Mary Ann nee Williams (Gt Gt Grannie) and  of (nephew) Charles Williams

Why are you looking for Esther and Jane?

Because I think you have exhausted every possibility without buying loads of certificates for Frances/Mary Ann and Charles so you look for other family members and see if things like marriage certificates giving witnesses and father's names might just give any clue.

You know it isn't straight forward so sometimes you have to go down other avenues to get back to where you want to be.

You have to be prepared to look at the bigger picture with a puzzle like this.

I wondered about getting birth certificates for Esther and Jane, OK they probably won't be of any help if Mary Ann registered the births but what if say her mother registered one of the births? A long shot but you reach a point where to have to consider everything.

[toni*]

1871...Boyn Hill, Cox Green, Maidenhead, Berkshire.

TURNER, Thomas                   Head M 53  Berkshire
TURNER, Frances M                 Wife F 36  Montgomeryshire
TURNER, Sophia E             Daughter F 13  Middlesex
TURNER, Mary S                Daughter F 12 Middlesex
TURNER, Lewis J                        Son M 5  Berkshire
TURNER, Harriett E              Daughter F 2  Berkshire
TURNER, Albert J                      Son  M 1  Berkshire
WILLIAMS, Charles             Nephew M 15  Montgomeryshire
WILLIAMS, Esther M  Step-Daughter F 12  Montgomeryshire
WILLIAMS, Jane         Step-Daughter F 11  Montgomeryshire (marries Finch & Rance)

~~

So does Thomas have a sister that marries a Williams boy?

[toni*]

The way they are listed also makes me wonder about the relationships.
I see Charles is listed before the Williams girls illegitimate children of Mary Williams
And he is nephew you would have thought they [the girls] would have come first having the closest relationship but obviously not so did they just list Charles first because he was a male? It would seem not because he [Thomas] has daughters listed pre his son Lewis. Has Frances added the name Frances to distance herself from herself as Mary Williams that had illegitimate children?  Is this why they are listed last maybe Thomas had problems accepting them into the family.
Is Frances the mother of Lewis who seems to have been born out of wedlock this would then give you an inkling as to when she arrived in Berkshire.

[toni*]

It may be a very tedious and long job but I think you are going to have to look at ALL the Charles Williams born Montgomersyshire the same year +/- say 5 years as your Charles (and possibly further afield) in the 1861 census and match them to the Charles Williams on the 1871 census and also to deaths there should be some you are unable to match and these are genuine possibilities to be your Charles. You should then repeat this process as much as possible to limit the matches further

[Lesanne]

1861
MERIDITH, Charles Head Widower M 60 1801 Solicitor Knighton Radnorshire
MERIDITH, Fanny Daughter Unmarried F 25 1836 Bloomsbury
MERIDITH, Henry Son Unmarried M 7 1854 Paddington

 JOHN MEREDITH WILLIAMS of Welshpool and
born 1776
 admitted a burgess of Welshpool,
1804 (married,  died 17th June 1806, aged 30, leaving two sons

John Meredith Williams
### Richard Williams. Admitted a burgess of Welshpool. Attorney.

 Rev. JOHN MEREDITH WILLIAMS of Plas Dolanog
and Welshpool, born 1805  curate of Berriew.
 sworn a burgess of Welshpool, married Miss Bright
of Totterton, and left one son .

[Lesanne]

29th Jan 1830 Illegite
John s/o
Richard Meredith Williams (Attorney)
Mary Thomas (servant)
Montgomery Welchpool