Margaret LORKING c. 1817 Stratford, Essex

[Valda]

Hi


No showing on Family Search/IGI of a Margaret Collen/Collins or Cotten baptism circa 1796 in Guildford.

Coverage

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountySurrey.htm#G

It doesn't eliminate the marriage - it just doesn't confirm it. The witnesses from the marriage may or may not be helpful.


Regards

Valda

[mikeyr62]

Hi


No showing on Family Search/IGI of a Margaret Collen/Collins or Cotten baptism circa 1796 in Guildford.

Coverage

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountySurrey.htm#G

It doesn't eliminate the marriage - it just doesn't confirm it. The witnesses from the marriage may or may not be helpful.


Regards

Valda

Thanks. We checked that as well and couldn't find anything that even vaguely resembled her.

Saying that though, none of William and Margaret Lorking's children were christened (in Stratford or anywhere remotely close to it!)

We hate to say this but maybe we've reached a dead end with this line (which is a shame because it means that we've only got back to our great great great grandparents.

How would we find out the witnesses to the marriage?

Thanks in advance.

Mike    

[Valda]

Hi

You have to look at the actual marriage register. The register should come up when Essex Record Office puts up the digitalised images of the registers

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,543364.0.html

or contact the local London archives. They will hold copies of the registers. Wanstead is in the London borough of Redbridge.

http://www.redbridge.gov.uk/cms/leisure_and_libraries/culture/local_history_and_heritage/local_studies_and_archive.aspx


Essex baptism index for the baptisms of William and Margaret's children if you have not found them all or any (which if not found on this index will indicate they either didn't baptise their children or were non-conformist)

http://www.sturnidae.com/Essex/Baptisms.htm

Essex burial index might be useful for finding William Lorking senior's burial and therefore his age on burial which would give an approximated year of birth.

http://www.sturnidae.com/Essex/Burials.htm


Regards

Valda

[mikeyr62]

Hi

You have to look at the actual marriage register. The register should come up when Essex Record Office puts up the digitalised images of the registers

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,543364.0.html

or contact the local London archives. They will hold copies of the registers. Wanstead is in the London borough of Redbridge.

http://www.redbridge.gov.uk/cms/leisure_and_libraries/culture/local_history_and_heritage/local_studies_and_archive.aspx


Essex baptism index for the baptisms of William and Margaret's children if you have not found them all or any (which if not found on this index will indicate they either didn't baptise their children or were non-conformist)

http://www.sturnidae.com/Essex/Baptisms.htm

Essex burial index might be useful for finding William Lorking senior's burial and therefore his age on burial which would give an approximated year of birth.

http://www.sturnidae.com/Essex/Burials.htm


Regards

Valda

Thanks for this.

I've decided not to give up on tracing more about William and Margaret Lorking.

The 1841 census suggests that both William and Margaret were born in 1796. The 1851 census confirms that Margaret was born in Guildford.

I can't find the baptisms of any of their children on familysearch - maybe they were non-conformist or worse still Catholic  (as later generations were!)

I have found this on ancestry though when trying to trace a death for William (I know that he was alive in May 1842 at the time of his daughter's marriage to William Tapley):

Name:    William Lorkin (from memory this is how his name was transcribed at the 1841 census)
[William Larkin]
Baptism Date:    22 Feb 1795
Parish:    St Nicholas, Plumstead
County:    Kent
Borough:    Greenwich
Parent(s):    William Lorkin,
Mary Lorkin
Record Type:    Baptism

This would make him born "out of county" for the 1841 census and the year is pretty close!
However the only possible death record I can find is this one:

Name:    William John Lorking
Date of Registration:    Apr-May-Jun 1846
Registration district:    Strand
Inferred County:    London
Volume:    1
Page:    281

This doesn't seem to fit as I can't find reference to him being William John Lorking anywhere.

Any bright ideas please?

Mike        

[Valda]

Hi

The census enumerator clearly wrote the surname as Lorkin in 1841 copying the household schedule which if the family were literate would have been written by them.
The 1841 census is unlikely to suggest an exact year of birth for William since adults, those over 15, were usually recorded with ages rounded down to the nearest 5. So even if William's age is exact to the nearest 5 (as of census night in early June) that would still place him as born between 1792/3- 1795/6 (45-49) so the Plumstead baptism 22nd February 1795 born 3rd February is a possibility. An age at burial (again if accurate) would give a more exact age.

Since the family cannot as yet be found on the 1851 census William's death could have occurred anytime between 1841-1861. If it is contained in the General Registry Office index it may be misindexed. The Essex burial index gives a second shot at finding William from burial records with a possible address.
There was no question (and still isn't) on the marriage index that asks whether a father was deceased or not. It was the custom and practice of some officials to ask this question and place the information onto the marriage certificate, or put it there if the information was supplied whether asked for or not. It was however the custom and practice of many other officials not to ask the question or place the additional (unasked for) information on the certificate. Therefore unfortunately the absence of the word deceased on an 1842 marriage certificate is no guarantee without further evidence that either father was still alive, unless perhaps the word deceased appeared for the other father giving an indication that this was an official who added this information.

Many Essex parishes are not covered by the IGI/Family Search including many parishes in the West Ham area. Therefore unless you have searched using a county wide Essex index you really have no evidence as yet for whether the family were non-conformist or not. A later generation in one of the lines may have become Catholic. Marriage to a Catholic usually means subsequent children are baptised Catholic. As yet through marriages e.g. the 1842 marriage there is no evidence the family at this point were Catholic (or any other form of non-conformism?) unless the marriages were in Catholic churches (pre civil registration 1837 all marriages except Quakers had to be in Anglican churches to be legal).


Regards

Valda

[coombs]

Yes that is a bit of a setback for people researching Essex ancestors who cannot always get to Essex Record Office. FamilySearch Pilot site has released some but hardly any parishes of my ancestors, typical.

[ScoobyDoo22]

Hi,

I see this thread is from 5yrs ago, but I just discovered it when searching for 'Margaret Lorking', and have a bit more info, if you're still looking?

My 4th great-grandfather is an Edward Collen (1781-1865), brother to your ancestor Margaret Collen (Lorking). The only direct reference I've found to this is his will, which states:

   "the sum of two hundred pounds to my sister Margaret Lorking, the wife of ---- Lorking of Charles Street Saffron Garden, provision for her own absolute use and benefit..."

but the 1841 census does include a Margaret Collen age 16 (not 100% sure if she's Edward's daughter) staying with the Margaret & William Lorking family, so the connection is there.

I've not been able to find Edward & Margaret's parents though. He states he was born in Cork, Ireland in censuses, but brings his family up in Albury, Surrey, where there are other Collens going way back. A Margaret Collen was baptised nearby in Godalming on 12 Feb 1786, which could be her (she would then be 10 yrs older than her husband and lie on censuses though).

To add to the mystery, Edward died in Baden, Germany, at his son-in-law's house (Wendelin Kleyser), and there seem to be a lot of Collens in Baden too. So I'm not sure whether their parents came from Cork, Surrey or Baden!

You are right about the Catholic connection though. Edward bought land to have a church built in Guildford, and one side of the family is still very involved with the church today.

If you've discovered anything else in the meantime, I'd be very interested.