Help sought with surname Scivier

[MargP]

There are 2 Baptist records for Hannah Scivier in Hursley

31 Oct 1802
F William
M Mary

28 May 1809
F John
M Elizabeth

Margp

[Ladyhawk]

I have wondered why John was not called William after his father

There are 2 Baptist records for Hannah Scivier in Hursley

31 Oct 1802
F William
M Mary

28 May 1809
F John
M Elizabeth

I wonder if Hannah's son John Scivier was named after his grandfather  or Hannah's brother perhaps ? John SCRIVIER 22/9/1799 Hursley father William mother Mary

Did John & ?  have any children?

Can you give us more details on John's marriage ie the year also the witnesses

have you look for a Will for William Webb

Not sure whether either of these 'wills' for a William WEBB maybe a connection to William Webb father of John Scivier

William Webb effects under £450 1 March 1875 Late of Moor Green South Stoneham Market Gardener died 18/1/1875 at West End South Stoneham was proved in Winchester by John William Heath Carpenter & William James WEBB Gardener the son and Jane BAILEY widow the daughter both of Moor Green the executors

Here's this William Webb on the censuses

1871c Moorgreen RG10; Piece: 1197; Folio: 83; Page: 30
William Webb 76 born Tadley Hampshire Market Gardener
Agnes 62 wife

1861 RG9; Piece: 681; Folio: 72; Page: 20;
Farm House South Stoneham
William Webb 65 Tadley  Farmer of 13 acres employing 2 men  & 1 boy
Agness Matilda  53 wife

1851 South Stoneham  HO107; Piece: 1670; Folio: 147; Page: 10
William Webb 56 Gardener
Harriet 46 wife

1841 HO107; Piece 402; Book: 21 E D: 5; Folio: 9; Page: 12;
West End South Stoneham
William Webb 45 Gardener
Elizabeth 47
Jane 20
Sarah 15
William 13
John 11

Although born Warwickshire I have included this one as you mention occupation YEOMAN

William WEBB effects under £3000
4 August 1876 Late of  Napton Warwick YEOMAN died 23 May 1876
at Napton proved at Birmingham by Elizabeth Webb of Napton widow
the relict sole executrix

here he is on the censuses

1871 Napton  RG10; Piece: 3219; Folio: 54; Page: 2
William Webb 66 Priors Marston Warwickshire Retired Farmer
Elizabeth 58

1861 Napton
William Webb56 Priors Marston Landed Proprietor
Elizabeth 48 Stockton

1851 Napton
William Webb 46 Farmer of 8 Acres
Elizabeth 38
Joseph Eagels  father in law retired gardener

1841 Napton
William Webb 35 Grazier

[Ladyhawk]

No sign of Hannah Scivier yet but there are 3 Hannahs born and living in Hursley in 1851 - Hannah Pach widow, Hannah Rogers widow and Hannah Trood wife of Benjamin.  There is also a Hannah Mason wife of Richard born Hursley, living in Millbrook, South Stoneham registration district. Again the Parish records might help with confirming or eliminating these.

Here's Hannah Scivier with son 1861 census

1861 Shamblehurt Farm South Stoneham
RG9; Piece: 682; Folio: 8; Page: 9
John SCIVIER 36 Hursley Farmer of 180 Acres employing 2 Lab. & 3 boys
Hannah SCIVIER mother 60 (1801) Hursley  'W' (Widow)
4 servants

I wonder if this is Hannah’s death 

Ann SCIVIER
Dec qtr. 1863 Winchester Hampshire
Vol 2c page 59


1841 High Street St Thomas Winchester
HO107; Piece 409; Book: 9 ED: 8; Folio: 3; Page: 1; Line: 20;
Hannah SCIVIER 35 Hampshire F.S.

[MargP]

No sign of Hannah Scivier yet but there are 3 Hannahs born and living in Hursley in 1851 - Hannah Pach widow, Hannah Rogers widow and Hannah Trood wife of Benjamin.  There is also a Hannah Mason wife of Richard born Hursley, living in Millbrook, South Stoneham registration district. Again the Parish records might help with confirming or eliminating these.

Here's Hannah Scivier with son 1861 census

1861 Shamblehurt Farm South Stoneham
RG9; Piece: 682; Folio: 8; Page: 9
John SCIVIER 36 Hursley Farmer of 180 Acres employing 2 Lab. & 3 boys
Hannah SCIVIER mother 60 (1801) Hursley  'W' (Widow)
4 servants

1841 High Street St Thomas Winchester
HO107; Piece 409; Book: 9 ED: 8; Folio: 3; Page: 1; Line: 20;
Hannah SCIVIER 35 Hampshire F.S.

It would be nice to know who lived at Shamblehurt Farm on previous census

[hanes teulu]

Spenser,
A warm welcome to Rootschat. Re "John the Squire", here's a detailed description of Shamblehurst farm from an advert in the Hampshire Telegraph &Sussex Chronicle, Sat, August 3 1867.

SHAMBLEHURST FARM, SOUTH STONEHAM, NEAR SOUTHAMPTON
Valuable dairy of 10 cross bred Cows in calf, four 2 years old Heifers, four Weaners, one Bull, 50 Hampshire Down young Ewes, seven young draught Horses, one Colt, clever seven Year old Hackney Gelding, quiet to ride and drive, 19 strong Shutes and Breeding Sows, Poultry, 3 Waggons, five Carts, four-horse power Thrashing Machine (by Tasker), Ploughs, Presses, Harrows, Drags, Ring and Plain Cylinder Rollers, Bennett's Seed Machine, Corn and Turnip Drill, Cake Crushers, Chaff Cutter, Night-soil Tun, Gardner's Turnip Cutter, Horse-hoe, Scarifier, Winnowing machine, Barn Implements, Sacks, Team, plough and cart Harness, Hurdles, Troughs, Cages, usual assortment of Farm Tools, Dairy and Brewing Utensils, and the whole HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE, and Effects of the late Mr john Scivier deceased which
Mr RICHARD AUSTIN is favoured with instruction to SELL by PUBLIC AUCTION, without reserve, on the premises, on Tuesday, August 7th,, 1867, at Twelve o'clock.
Particulars in Catalogues, to be obtained of the Auctioneer, Bishop's Waltham and Southampton.

A John Scivier, Shamblehurst, married a Rebecca Godrich, December 1865. Is this the same "late John Scivier"?

regards

[Ladyhawk]

A John Scivier, Shamblehurst, married a Rebecca Godrich, December 1865.

Is this the same "late John Scivier"?

Looks to be the same

John SCIVIER effects under £2000 16 July 1867 letters of Administration of the personal Estate and effects of John Scivier late of Shamblehurst in the Parish of South Stoneham Yeoman deceased who died 21st June 1867 at Shamblehurst  aforesaid were granted at Winchester to Rebecca SCIVIER of Shamblehurst widow the Relict of the said deceased she having been first sworn.

1871c Durley Hampshire
 RG10; Piece: 1215; Folio: 24; Page: 2
Rebecca SCIVIER Head Widow 37 Dursley Independant means
Edward J (John) son 4 South Stoneham

1881c RG11; Piece: 1236; Folio: 23; Page: 4
Durley Mill
Rebeckah GODRICH Head 71 widow
Rebeckah SCIVIER 47(mother  ) widow
James C Godrich 36 son
Edwina A “  25 dau

1891 RG12; Piece: 941; Folio 20; Page 8 transcribed HIVIER
Durley Mill
Edward J SCIVIER 24 South Stoneham Millier
Rebecca SCIVIER 57 Durley Living on own means
1 servant

1891 RG12; Piece: 884; Folio 138; Page 1
Jessie Buettell age 19 servant is in the household of Francis & Fanny GODRICH

Edward John SCIVIER married 1892 Portsea Island Jessie Benttell

1901c RG13; Piece: 1088; Folio: 18; Page: 3 transcribed SEIVER
Durley Mill
Edward SCIVIER Head 34 South Stoneham Corn Miller died 1944 Droxford Hampshire
Jessie 29
Mable 7
John 5
Dorothy 4
Edward 1
Thomas 1 mth
Rebecca SCIVIER 67 mother Widow (died 1922 age 89 Droxford)

Rebecca GODRICH personal estate £ 243 19s. 4d. 13 Sept 1882 late of Durley widow who died 3 August 1882 at Durely was proved at Winchester by Rebecca SCIVIER of 17 Peel Terrace Gosport Widow the Daughter and James Chidell GODRICH of Durley Miller the Son the Executors

1861 RG9; Piece: 696; Folio: 31; Page: 17 Durley Mill
Rebecca GODRICH with widowed mother Rebecca & 4 siblings (inc. James Chidel)

1851 HO107; Piece: 1676; Folio: 38; Page: 20 Durley Mill
Rebecca GODRICH with parents Edward & Rebecca & 8 siblings

1841 HO107; Piece 410; Book: 11; ED 10; Folio: 12; Page: 18 Wharf Mill House
Rebecca GODRICH with James & Hester CHIDEL

1841 HO107; Piece 387; Book: 4; ED 7; Folio: 10; Page: 14; Durley Mill
Edward & Rebecca GODRICH with 4 children

[Spenser]

Many thanks to everyone who contributed to answering my questions, I am overwhelmed by the response, being new to this I really didn't know what to expect and I realise now that if I have been a bit more forthcoming with some extra detail, I would have made it easier for you to help me.

This is what I have gleaned (and from you all) so far:-

John Scivier B 2nd Feb 1820 in Hursley, M 1865 Droxofrd rd and D 1867 (thank you hanes teulu for details of the will, so interesting). Buried at Durley churchyard.
His mother was Hannah Scivier Baptised in Hursley 31 Oct 1802, M? D?

On John Scivier's marriage to Rebekkah Godrich in 1865 Hannah was not a Witness, instead this cousins Edward and Louisa Godrich are given.   This may mean that I could presume Hannah to have died between the Census of 1861 when she is given as 60 and 1865, John's marrriage do you think a good point to take those 4 years as a searching point?

John Scivier's Will implies to me that he owned the farm,  Do you have any ideas on how I can check how he came to be in possession of the farm, to leave it in a Will means he was not a Tennant? How did he become head of this farm in just 10 years?

An area of confusion for me still is John's father, William Webb and the Ratlake Farm Hursley connection that halhawk kindly raises, in the 1851 there is a John Scivier aged 30 with a Charles Bailey as Head of the House not William Webb.

Any further help/clarification very much appreciated and apologies in advance if my questions seem so glaringly naive with all your experience!

[halhawk]

Hi again - I should have welcomed you to RC before - so welcome! 

This story has got me intrigued, so I have been scribbling down the Webb/Bailey family tree - if you put together what suffolk*sue and I found, this seems to be the family:-

Elizabeth CHURCHER married Benjamin WEBB 16 Sep 1773
      Children - Sarah born prob 1775 (baptism)
                    William born 1786 (baptism), died 1825
Probably other children?

Benjamin WEBB died  1787

Elizabeth WEBB nee CHURCHER then married Benjamin BAILEY 11 Aug 1791
        Children - Louisa born 1793 (baptism), died prob 1878
                      Charles born 1800?, died prob 1875
Again could be other children.

Charles and Louisa were still living at Ratlake in the 1861 and 1871 censuses.

It would seem that William Webb must have at least acknowledged John as his son to his family, since he is described as nephew in the 1851 census.

Good hunting
halhawk

[Spenser]

Hello halhawk,

Thank you for clearing up my confusion, its given me renewed hope of moving on in the right direction, I was stuck at Shamblehurst Farm when I should have been looking at Ratlake.
If anyone knows when Hannah Scivier, daughter of William and Mary Scivier and Baptised 31st October 1802 in Hursley died or better still, where she is buried, I would be delighted to know. In the 1861 census she is 60 years and at Shamblehurst, South Stoneham, so a posible nearest church would be Durley or back to birthplace at Hursley?
Again, thank you for all your help, lovely to have when I'm just starting out.

Spenser