Author Topic: Secretary Hand Transcription Help  (Read 2123 times)

Offline cwr1404

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Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« on: Monday 15 August 11 01:36 BST (UK) »
Hi all. I'd be very grateful if someone could take a look at the following image and help with transcribing it. This is the first time I've transcribed a document this old and have only been learning about Secretary Hand for the past few days.  So far I have:

To the most reverent Father in god William Archbisshop of Canterbury and Channceller of England

unto your gracious Lordshipp your dayly Oratour Rychard Appulby that hyere is he in peacible possessed and seased/feafed? of ___ ___ and ____ withyn the Countye of Cumberland ___ do means as of fee and soo? seased/feafed? gracious Lord Dynes? evydence _______ the _____ ben? comen to chandes? and possession of Arthur Wirwy? & Gaweyn Warwyk and John Dawton of? ______ hath desired _____ of the said evydences and ajuysments? which to due they and _____ of theym _______ all ryht and good consience [.] And by cause your said Oratour knowing not the ______ numbre of the said evydences ... they be conteyned he is without remedy by the courts of the comen land [.]  Please it here? for your grace ... writt sub pena to be dyrected to the said Arthure Gawyn and John comandynt them by the same? ... at a _____ day and _____ ______ ______ by your ______ to be Lymetted there to be answerd to ch___ ... and shall ________

I also need help with the text in the bottom right as I can't really make much sense of it.  Thank you in advance.

Appleby - County Durham
Browell - Northumberland & County Durham
Huddlestone - County Durham
Robins - Queen's County & County Durham
Thynn(e) - Scottish Borders & County Durham

Offline pinefamily

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #1 on: Monday 15 August 11 06:59 BST (UK) »
I think it's called court hand, and yes, it is terrible to decipher.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Kelsey, Crampton, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Warwickshire, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline Archivos

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #2 on: Monday 15 August 11 09:19 BST (UK) »
The word that looks like seased is feafed - it's to with the transfer of land.  If you look up 'Feoffment' in the dictionary (online or a book!) it should give you a proper definition.


Offline cwr1404

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #3 on: Monday 15 August 11 10:38 BST (UK) »
Hi pinefamily. Yes, i think secretary and court hand are the same thing.  Thanks Archivos.  I guessed it was about property/land as it mentions peacable possession so thought it was more likely feafed than seased.
Appleby - County Durham
Browell - Northumberland & County Durham
Huddlestone - County Durham
Robins - Queen's County & County Durham
Thynn(e) - Scottish Borders & County Durham


Offline pinefamily

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #4 on: Monday 15 August 11 11:04 BST (UK) »
I understand the term feoffment etc., but my memory bell is ringing. Seased, or seized, I think is also an old term to do with property transfers etc.

Of course, inevitably, I will be proven wrong. :)
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Kelsey, Crampton, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Warwickshire, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline veeblevort

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #5 on: Monday 15 August 11 11:36 BST (UK) »
Guesswork here:

...Cumberland which demesne is of fee and so seased

vv.

Offline Archivos

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #6 on: Monday 15 August 11 12:49 BST (UK) »
I understand the term feoffment etc., but my memory bell is ringing. Seased, or seized, I think is also an old term to do with property transfers etc.

Of course, inevitably, I will be proven wrong. :)
Yup, spot on! - see...
Guesswork here:

...Cumberland which demesne is of fee and so seased

vv.

Aha, I think you're right!  It's seased, not feafed - the f in fee is totally different.

Offline Ermintrude46

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #7 on: Monday 15 August 11 19:12 BST (UK) »
hath desired _____ of the said evydences and ajuysments? which to due they and _____ of theym

think it's "hath desired delyv[er]ie of the said evydences charters and agryments which to doe they and ev[er]y of theym" (which they obviously haven't hence Richard trying to get a supoena!)
Ermy
Baldwin / Dixey / Rumble (Berkshire)
Burnsides / Corps / Harker / HINDLE / Longstaff / Martin / Page (Co. Durham)
Chalker / Glyde / Morris / Pitman / Stroud (Dorset)
BARTON / Heasman / Wheatley (East Sussex)
Baby / Silver / Silvester (Hampshire)
BARTON / Cheeseman / Head / JONES / Kidder / Wood (Kent)
Chalker (Somerset)
Chatburn / HINDLE (West Yorkshire)
Curtis / Davis / Stevens (Wiltshire)
Arcules / Carter / HINTON (Worcestershire)

~.~. main lines in CAPS .~.~

Offline Ermintrude46

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Re: Secretary Hand Transcription Help
« Reply #8 on: Monday 15 August 11 19:25 BST (UK) »
at a _____ day and _____ ______ ______ by your ______ to be Lymetted there to be answerd to ch___ ... and shall ________

think its "at a c[er]teyn day and under a c[er]teyn payn by your grace to be lymetted there to answer to the .... as shall requyre"

I think Arthur's surname is also Warwyk, wonder if there was another brother called Lancelot!
Ermy
Baldwin / Dixey / Rumble (Berkshire)
Burnsides / Corps / Harker / HINDLE / Longstaff / Martin / Page (Co. Durham)
Chalker / Glyde / Morris / Pitman / Stroud (Dorset)
BARTON / Heasman / Wheatley (East Sussex)
Baby / Silver / Silvester (Hampshire)
BARTON / Cheeseman / Head / JONES / Kidder / Wood (Kent)
Chalker (Somerset)
Chatburn / HINDLE (West Yorkshire)
Curtis / Davis / Stevens (Wiltshire)
Arcules / Carter / HINTON (Worcestershire)

~.~. main lines in CAPS .~.~