Genealogical Symbol: backward S

[Eleesavet]

This has developed into a very interesting thread.  I am learning a lot from JM's replies.  Having perused them for longer than 60 seconds, I am perusing them in minute detail.

I appreciate that the chartist could well have been "white spacing" and that we need to see the chart to give us a clearer picture, to find out if he used the symbol  "to line up the generations and fill in the white blanks of paper".

Hopefully, if it doesn't inconvenience her, RedMystic will be able to get a clear enough copy to post here.  RedMystic did advise me in another thread re these ancestors that the preparation for the chart dates back to 2003 and that she noticed after she left the Clan Donald Centre that what she had copied from the CD Centre was page 2 of 4.  I think, therefore, I should contact the CD Centre to see if I can get the missing 3 pages.  Perhaps we need to see a complete copy to finally conclude.

I would be interested in knowing the chartist's name to see if I can trace through family information I have.  If I remember correctly RedMystic intends to advise me by e-mail.  If we knew the chartist's profession it could help.

Perhaps this tree was made for his own pleasure and any marks and symbols were something made up, rather than had a specificed / official meaning.

I use all sorts of little markers and symbols for various things (not just genealogical charts) which would mean nothing to anyone else.

Maybe we are trying to read too much into this backward S and trying to give it a meaning which is was never intended to have? 

Just another way of looking at it ... 

I notice the chartist's symbol against the years and names of the areas in which Donald lived.  It would look like the lower case "L" to me and would to my mind be an abbreviation for either "location" or "lived".  His symbol looks exactly like the lower case "Ls" he has used in words.  So, my point is, the lower case "L" would seem an amateurish way to indicate location; whereas, the lateral lines and reversed S that of someone acquainted with draftsmanship in his profession.  The lines (horizontal and lateral) and reversed S do look carefully drawn; however, his writing looks a little shaky!

Reversed S

I would refer you to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.  Google "Reversed S" and you will find further meanings of this symbol at Wikipedia.  It makes for interesting reading; not that I'm suggesting that any one of the interpretations applies to the chart.

As Ruskie says maybe we are reading too much into the backward S and giving it a meaning it wasn't intended to have.

Liz

[majm]

Agh, so possibly there's additional pages associated with the chart ....

Anyway,  I feel I should apologise for being such a poor wordsmith in trying to explain my take on that symbol/break line.  I am very well regarded within my industry group as to my drafting skills, consise, clear, without ambiguity etc.  I am an examiner of student work for various trade/apprenticeship theory classes, including of course, Computer Aided Design Drafting classes ....  But oh I do so take far too many words to say what I can so easily draw.  "A picture speaks a thousand words" to me ....

The lines (horizontal and lateral) and reversed S do look carefully drawn; however, his writing looks a little shaky!

My longhand writing skills were overtaken when I trained as a draftsman. I am very good at reading old script, but my longhand is simply "scribble" to a stranger.  With Drafting, Capitalisation took over my longhand...  everything on a drawing prepared on a drawing board (ie before puters), has to be in UPPER case. It has been that way for hundreds of years.  Various pen/nib sizes match up to various sized sheets of drawing media, there's ISO codes/standards based on the old manual ways etc etc etc...

So, yes, E, while his longhand is shaky, his attention to providing depth of detail on each person is simply grand... 

PS, those reverse S google explanations are very interesting ....  I have avoided mentioning the equilateral cross with its 'arms' bent at right angles (either facing right or in reverse) as the reverse S on the chart does not approach that at all ....  I belive that symbol can default back to Sanskrit, alas its original meaning was overtaken by the NSDAP in the 1930's. 

The draftsman's lot is full of drafters who lost their longhand "running-writing" skills long before puters were around .....

Cheers,  JM

[CarolA3]

To me “disinterest” means to have a deep understanding of something ie an educated interest in the subject but not to have, nor seek to have,  any benefit/interest derived from/by that interest.  So a Judge would be required to have a deep understanding of the relevant laws pertaining to a trial over which he/she was presiding.  Thus his/her determination in applying Justice is bound up in his “disinterest” in the evidence and witness statements etc v the laws/regulations/written and unwritten practices etc.   However, I am well aware that the meaning of the word “disinterest” is moving rapidly towards the meaning of the word “uninterested” (ie not interested).   That is, I am well aware that “disinterest” is now coming to mean “not seeking to have any knowledge of”and not anticipating any self benefit/interest.  So there are some RChat threads that I am a disinterested participant, and there are other threads in which I am not interested.   However, this thread is fascinating me, and my disinterest is becoming significant to me.

Insurance claims, basic training - to investigate a motor accident, find disinterested witnesses i.e. independent and willing, not friends/family/passengers.  The uninterested witness walked away muttering 'I'm not getting involved!'

Regards,
Carol

[Redroger]

Insurance claims, basic training - to investigate a motor accident, find disinterested witnesses i.e. independent and willing, not friends/family/passengers.  The uninterested witness walked away muttering 'I'm not getting involved!'

Regards,
Carol

i.e. people not having a personal interest, in the sense of involvement, financial or otherwise.

[Guy Etchells]

Back in the mists of time (1950s) we used a reversed S to indicate a broken lineage.
I.E. The person was descended from another shown person but not directly the intervening generations being missing.

We also used a ≠ (an equals sign with a line through it) to show a couple in a relationship were not married and their offspring (issue) connected with a broken line - - - .
Cheers
Guy

[nainmaddie]

Having read and assimilated the somewhat long messages, I feel compelled to write and agree with Guy Etchells.

In the good old days ? before the advent of the Internet I was taught Family History by a very knowledgable person.

Marriage between 2 people was  =

Illegitimate children were shown with a swiggly line between parents if not married.

I have noticed also that the Chapman Codes do not seem to be used on the Internet.eg
CAE for Caernavonshire
ANG for Anglesey

There is a whole list somewhere, which I cannot find at the moment !
If researchers used the proper symbols there would be no confusion    

[Redroger]

Agreed Nainmaddie, the Chapman codes are usually given in family history society journals where lists of members' interests are shown, together with a key.

[Gadget]

Chapman Codes have been on Genuki since it began:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Regions/Codes.html

[nainmaddie]

Thank you gnu for the link.  It saves me having to search my attic for my old notebooks !!!!