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[maggib]

On the birth cert. there is a blank for the father's name and the mother is listed as Margaret Davies. There is a blank for her maiden name. On the census she came from Bolton.
Among many possibilities I had thought that maybe this John Davies was a relation, eg. brother but on the microfiche at Central Library Manchester on  his death transcript it does say 'widow'.

[jim1]

Well this sounds like Margaret was a Davies also but John was not the father.If she wasn't you need to find her name in order to look for a marriage.Of course there's every chance they didn't.
I've found around half a dozen John Davies' born c.1872 B'ham including one in an orphanage.I mention this because many of these lads went into the army.I also found one with a brother Willam 3 years younger.
I think there's been some creativity on the 1911 census which wasn't that unusual.Because of the age gap they've massaged their ages to look more respectable & the same with their marriage years.
Were there any more children after Donald?

jim

[maggib]

Thanks for looking that up.
There were no more children as far as I know. I have found only 1 Margaret Davies born in Bolton -  in 1866  and none in 1885. I was told that sometimes if the 'father' was away a fussy registrar would refuse to put the father down. But that doesn't account for why Margaret's maiden name is missing.

Could you please tell me a little more about the John's you found- in case they are differen to the ones I found - so long as it doesn't mean you have to start all over again!

[jim1]

First of all I've just been along Chapel St. 1891 but no William,so they were probably in lodgings,it may well be William followed John into the Army.
It wasn't a case of a fussy registrar,it was a legal requirement for a father's name to be given if known.In regard to illegitimacy the father had to be present to give his consent for his name to be given to the child.The mother's maiden name was also a requirement for a married woman.
So what the cert. says is that Donald Davies is the illegitimate son of Margaret Davies.
I'll have to go back & find the census for John.

jim

[jim1]

In 1881 there'a a John H Davies in the Middlemore Home Edgbaston (Industrial school/Reformatory),these children became part of "the lost children" as they were being shipped to Australia by 1891.There's no sign of a William though.He may be the same John H you found in Wales where he has an older cousin William.
RG11/2953/81/44.
The other has a younger brother William but this John seems to appear in 1891 as well.
RG11/2948/34/8.
Without a marriage it's difficult to see how to proceed.At present the likely candidate is John H but there's no proof he's the same John.

jim
Edit:not the same John H as he's still in Wales in 1881.

[jim1]

OK.I've been following the route of William's parentage who were John Davies b.C.1814 Gwyddelwern Merionethshire.
He married Mary ? & by 1841 had a daughter Margaret listed as 8 months so not married long.There are 2 John's marriages to a Mary in the Corwen Dist. which covered where they lived.
Edit: not this one either as William is still in Wales in 1891 while yours was in Staffs.
jim

[maggib]

Many thanks for your perseverance. I guess I don't want to accept that Donald was illegitimate ! Apparently from those who remembered her she was a 'lady'. However - it happens!

About Chapel Street - William could have moved between John putting him down as next of kin in 1890, and the 1891 census. I did find a William on Chapel St. in 1901  married to Ada with 3 children.... and I found them in Durham in 1891 and he came from Birmingham. If it is his brother he is 9 years older.

This John Davies, 'husband' of Margaret , has a middle name of Eric at least on his death deeds and in the electoral roll for 1912. However I have searched  several times and cannot  find such a name nor even John E  who would fit any of the criteria. This is why I didn't give you  this information before. So you can discount any John's with any other initial.

I'm going to the library tomorrow to find Margaret Davies, born Bolton, on the census of 1891 to see who the possible parents are.
I quite understand if you want to draw a line under this. It is quite complicated and frustrating.

[jim1]

On the 1891/1901 census William gives his birthplace as W.Brom. Staffs. but it seems a coincidence that someone with the same name should be living in such a small street.
You may have to get his marriage cert. as trying to follow John is a dead end.
jim

[maggib]

Yes I guess you're right.
Anyway there's  not much point in pursuing John if he isn't the father but I 'd still like to know how he became involved.
I'll try the other avenues open to me i.e. William and Margaret . What I really need is one of the 'Who do you think are?' team on my case!!They seem to be able to delve into every hidden document.
Anyway thanks for all your help- it's much appreciated.
Maggib