Author Topic: Can anyone help me with this word please?  (Read 2782 times)

Offline Scrabble

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Can anyone help me with this word please?
« on: Sunday 07 August 11 18:57 BST (UK) »
I am stuck on a word that occurs 3 times in this register and wondered if anyone else can read it please?
I am attaching a couple of instances, the first reads Thomas Petchie the ????? was buryed the.......
and the second Henry Cumbers ????? was buryed the ....
Any ideas would be gratefully received.
APPLETON Harwich/Gravesend/Stepney
BRADLEY Bermondsey/Canning Town/Ilford, Essex
COLE/SALTWELL/DAVEY/MONK/RILEY/COPSEY/PAVET/BACON Navestock area Essex
CALLOW Dartford Kent/Deptford  RANDALL Greenwich/Deptford
DAVIS Ross/Stroud,Glos/West Ham, Essex
FENNING Gosbeck, Suffolk  WELCH Devon/Greenwich/Stanmore/Ipswich
PALMER Rotherhithe/Deptford/West Ham/Ilford
LANGDALE E London/Deptford  HERITAGE Rotherhithe/Bermondsey
VIZARD Bermondsey/Shoreditch  TURNER Liverpool/Chatham

Offline MaxD

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 07 August 11 19:22 BST (UK) »
Think the second instance is "fourth", doesn't look the same in the first one though.
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline arthurk

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 07 August 11 19:30 BST (UK) »
The word following the names looks to me like "smythe". The other unknown is the date when Thomas Petchie was buried, and I think that's "xixth" (19th), followed by "daye" etc.

Arthur

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 07 August 11 19:39 BST (UK) »
Thank you. I have been rather stuck on the first letter being a 'P' but if it is an 'S' it could be Smythe as in Blacksmith?
I thought Petchie and Cumbers were Gentlemen so was thinking along the lines of it being the name of their stately pile or maybe their profession but can't make anything fit.
Scrabble
APPLETON Harwich/Gravesend/Stepney
BRADLEY Bermondsey/Canning Town/Ilford, Essex
COLE/SALTWELL/DAVEY/MONK/RILEY/COPSEY/PAVET/BACON Navestock area Essex
CALLOW Dartford Kent/Deptford  RANDALL Greenwich/Deptford
DAVIS Ross/Stroud,Glos/West Ham, Essex
FENNING Gosbeck, Suffolk  WELCH Devon/Greenwich/Stanmore/Ipswich
PALMER Rotherhithe/Deptford/West Ham/Ilford
LANGDALE E London/Deptford  HERITAGE Rotherhithe/Bermondsey
VIZARD Bermondsey/Shoreditch  TURNER Liverpool/Chatham


Offline arthurk

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 07 August 11 20:12 BST (UK) »
I thought blacksmith was probably the most likely, but didn't say so because there are other kinds of smith too - whitesmith is one that springs to mind.

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 07 August 11 20:25 BST (UK) »
Arthur I think you have cracked it. Here is another sample of the word 'Smythe' in the same hand. This time as a surname and the first letter is slightly different but the word overall is similar enough to be pretty sure it is the same word. I hadn't thought about there being different types of smith, it might explain why there are two of them at the same time in Blackmore which can't have been a very big village.
Thank you very much for your help.
Scrabble
APPLETON Harwich/Gravesend/Stepney
BRADLEY Bermondsey/Canning Town/Ilford, Essex
COLE/SALTWELL/DAVEY/MONK/RILEY/COPSEY/PAVET/BACON Navestock area Essex
CALLOW Dartford Kent/Deptford  RANDALL Greenwich/Deptford
DAVIS Ross/Stroud,Glos/West Ham, Essex
FENNING Gosbeck, Suffolk  WELCH Devon/Greenwich/Stanmore/Ipswich
PALMER Rotherhithe/Deptford/West Ham/Ilford
LANGDALE E London/Deptford  HERITAGE Rotherhithe/Bermondsey
VIZARD Bermondsey/Shoreditch  TURNER Liverpool/Chatham

Offline arthurk

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 09 August 11 13:53 BST (UK) »
After a bit more thought, I now wonder if an undefined smith would almost always be a blacksmith, and any other kind would be described more specifically as whitesmith, tinsmith, goldsmith etc etc. I've no idea how big a place Blackmore was, but in a rural setting where horses would have been more or less as common as cars, vans and tractors are now, there might well have been a need for more than one in a village. (Or perhaps they were partners and worked togther.)

Arthur

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 August 11 14:40 BST (UK) »
I think you are right. Although perhaps not as numerous as the cars we have now but I imagine Gentlemen would have had several horses and there would have been ploughing teams and the butcher, baker etc may have had horses and carts. Plus maybe spare teams of horses for the coaches that passed through on their way to London (or is that just in films!).

It was quite a small village. In 1841 there were 660 people, two of whom were Blacksmiths. There is an interesting website at www.Blackmorevillage.co.uk

Scrabble
APPLETON Harwich/Gravesend/Stepney
BRADLEY Bermondsey/Canning Town/Ilford, Essex
COLE/SALTWELL/DAVEY/MONK/RILEY/COPSEY/PAVET/BACON Navestock area Essex
CALLOW Dartford Kent/Deptford  RANDALL Greenwich/Deptford
DAVIS Ross/Stroud,Glos/West Ham, Essex
FENNING Gosbeck, Suffolk  WELCH Devon/Greenwich/Stanmore/Ipswich
PALMER Rotherhithe/Deptford/West Ham/Ilford
LANGDALE E London/Deptford  HERITAGE Rotherhithe/Bermondsey
VIZARD Bermondsey/Shoreditch  TURNER Liverpool/Chatham

Offline orillia3

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Re: Can anyone help me with this word please?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 09 August 11 19:57 BST (UK) »
My deciphering of the documents as presented with your notes

Thomas Petchie the Smythe was buryed the fifth daye of Aprill anno xxxxxxxxxx

Henry Xxxxxxxx Smythe was buryed the fourth daye of xxxx anno xxxxxxxxxx

assuming the word in question is Smythe, it is possible that Thomas Petchie was a "smythe"  and the other fellow's last name was Smythe as he is not referred to as "the" Smythe.

I would need the whole document to compare how script is written in this hand and compare the known characters. 

I confess the scans you presented do not display very well on my computer, they are not very high resolution and appear as little blocks.